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I was downtown working last Saturday evening and had to park my car in a less than desirable spot but one that i could see from my shop. As the night wears on and the people become drunk i notice a group of thugs and thier women sitting all over my car, on the side on the hood. I looked for an officer but could not find one so i got my pistol and the phone. I stood in the doorway to my shop with 911 on speed dial and asked them to get off my car. They told me that this wasnt my car and that they didnt have to do anything. I told them i would call the police and i started taking pictures of them with a camera i had on hand as well. One of the thugs decided that my car was junk so he said, and started kicking my car. I had just paid it off, five years of payments for this! I was so angry that he wouldnt stop. I wanted to draw my pistol and make him stop untill i could get help. I didnt know what my rights were so i just let him beat my car while my co worker got the police for me. The pictures i took were grainy and the police said they wouldnt be able to find them anyway. Now i have huge dents all down the side of my car and a huge rear end print on the hood!

last year i was hit and run in the same car by a thug, the police knew who he was and never did anything about it.
how many more times am i supposed to let someone tread on me. How many times will the sourness of my high tax bill come up my throat when i beg for police help only to be let down. I pay over 30% of my income to the IRS for this!

What would you do?

I would have called the police first, without confronting them. All confronting them does is irritate them, they do their deads and leave before the police get there. If you call the police first, don't let them see you, then the police are the witness that they were actually on your car, and if there is any damage, even if you can't get money out of the thugs for repairs, your insurance will have another witness.

Now, as for legal, once they started doing damage to the car, this is criminal mischief. If it is happening at night, legally you can use deadly force. HOWEVER, that would be a dumb thing to do IMO. Taking a life over someone doing repairable damage to your car is not what carrying is about. Besides, you will have a lot less hassle and paperwork to do on the car damage than you will a shooting investigation.

IANAL, BTW

I would call 911 and report someone trying to steal my car.
I would take pictures. Covertly if possible.
If a police car rolled up, I would hit the panic button on my car alarm, and let the police deal with the car thieves.

I wouldn't confront the criminals first but I would defend myself if necessary.

SwimFan85 wrote:I would call 911 and report someone trying to steal my car.
I would take pictures. Covertly if possible.
If a police car rolled up, I would hit the panic button on my car alarm, and let the police deal with the car thieves.

I wouldn't confront the criminals first but I would defend myself if necessary.

Call in a false 911 report and then photograph the evidence?

Keith B wrote:I would have called the police first, without confronting them. All confronting them does is irritate them, they do their deads and leave before the police get there. If you call the police first, don't let them see you, then the police are the witness that they were actually on your car, and if there is any damage, even if you can't get money out of the thugs for repairs, your insurance will have another witness.

Now, as for legal, once they started doing damage to the car, this is criminal mischief. If it is happening at night, legally you can use deadly force. HOWEVER, that would be a dumb thing to do IMO. Taking a life over someone doing repairable damage to your car is not what carrying is about. Besides, you will have a lot less hassle and paperwork to do on the car damage than you will a shooting investigation.

IANAL, BTW

I agree with Keith.

If you mess things up yourself first, it's pretty hard for the police to make everything right. Consider that when they got there, they found:

1. Instead of calling them to deal with the situation, you had challenged a group of drunk street hoods. By nature, these folks are not about backing down and letting things drop because they've been seen, and you'll have a long wait for an apology. They're much more about teaching you a lesson about not messing with them again.

2. The hoods responded exactly as I would expect, and worked on your lesson and produced the effect they wanted - total frustration and expensive damage you will have to have repaired on your own with no consequences to themselves whatsoever.

3. You couldn't name the people involved, and all you could provide for identification is grainy pictures with resolution too poor to serve for identification purposes.

What exactly would you expect the police to do with that beyond taking a report?

Consider also that if you had taken Keith's approach and called the police with the thugs none the wiser, the police would have arrived, seen exactly who was involved (there's an excellent chance they'd know them on sight), gotten them off your car, sent them on their way, and the deliberate damage wouldn't have occurred at all. The thugs also wouldn't know whose car it was or where the owner worked, as they do now. Your "lesson" may not be over.

In other words, you would have gotten what you pay taxes for - if you had only asked for police response before you drove the situation 'way south on your own.

WildBill wrote:Call in a false 911 report and then photograph the evidence?

If someone you don't know is messing with your car, it's reasonable to believe they're committing or attempting to commit an offense under section 30.04 or 31.07 of the penal code.

I'm with Keith B and Excaliber All The Way (ATW) on this one. SALUT!

Since no one else mentioned it, I will: what if you (one) show your weapon and then the drunken thugs (several) pull theirs? What then?

Oldgringo wrote:I'm with Keith B and Excaliber All The Way (ATW) on this one. SALUT!

Since no one else mentioned it, I will: what if you (one) show your weapon and then the drunken thugs (several) pull theirs? What then?

The OP never said how many thugs and girlfriends there were on his car.

SwimFan85 wrote:

WildBill wrote:Call in a false 911 report and then photograph the evidence?

If someone you don't know is messing with your car, it's reasonable to believe they're committing or attempting to commit an offense under section 30.04 or 31.07 of the penal code.

You may be right about that.

WildBill wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:I'm with Keith B and Excaliber All The Way (ATW) on this one. SALUT!

Since no one else mentioned it, I will: what if you (one) show your weapon and then the drunken thugs (several) pull theirs? What then?

The OP never said how many thugs and girlfriends there were on his car.

The OP cited a "group" which I'd read as 3 or more unless otherwise clarified.

However, OldGringo's question would still be valid even if only one BG pulled a gun - the OP's response to that might be?

Things would certainly have rapidly gotten much uglier than they did.

WildBill wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:I'm with Keith B and Excaliber All The Way (ATW) on this one. SALUT!

Since no one else mentioned it, I will: what if you (one) show your weapon and then the drunken thugs (several) pull theirs? What then?

The OP never said how many thugs and girlfriends there were on his car.

You're right as is your custom. The OP did say "a group of thugs and there women".

While I only minored in Math a pretty long time ago, I seem to recall that a group was more than one? I've never known, specifically what constituted "several" as opposed to a "few". Perhaps there was only a threesome on the OP's car?

Oldgringo wrote:

WildBill wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:I'm with Keith B and Excaliber All The Way (ATW) on this one. SALUT!

Since no one else mentioned it, I will: what if you (one) show your weapon and then the drunken thugs (several) pull theirs? What then?

The OP never said how many thugs and girlfriends there were on his car.

You're right as is your custom. The OP did say "a group of thugs and there women".

While I only minored in Math a pretty long time ago, I seem to recall that a group was more than one? I've never known, specifically what constituted "several" as opposed to a "few". Perhaps there was only a threesome on the OP's car?

As I recall from my math classes, also a long time ago:
A single = 1
A couple = 2
Two youts = 2
A few = 3
Several = 4
Some = 5 or more
A group = 6 or more
A quorum = 50% or more of a group
A gang = 7 or more
A crowd = 10 or more
A jury = 12
A baker's jury = 13

So a group of thugs with their woman = 8 or more.
That's a lot of people sitting on a car.

WildBill wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:

WildBill wrote:

Oldgringo wrote:I'm with Keith B and Excaliber All The Way (ATW) on this one. SALUT!

Since no one else mentioned it, I will: what if you (one) show your weapon and then the drunken thugs (several) pull theirs? What then?

The OP never said how many thugs and girlfriends there were on his car.

You're right as is your custom. The OP did say "a group of thugs and there women".

While I only minored in Math a pretty long time ago, I seem to recall that a group was more than one? I've never known, specifically what constituted "several" as opposed to a "few". Perhaps there was only a threesome on the OP's car?

As I recall from my math classes, also a long time ago:
A single = 1
A couple = 2
Two youts = 2
A few = 3
Several = 4
Some = 5 or more
A group = 6 or more
A quorum = 50% or more of a group
A gang = 7 or more
A crowd = 10 or more
A jury = 12
A baker's jury = 13

So a group of thugs with their woman = 8 or more.
That's a lot of people sitting on a car.

UH OH! Now we have another problem and that's fire power. What if the OP had an 8 shot 1911, or even a 16 round Beretta 92 FS and the group each had stolen 20 round glocks or something?. It's really starting to not look too good for our OP.

Yepper, he should have called the police first.

If a "group" of uninvited strangers decide to make themselves at home on the hood of my truck, I am not waiting an hour or so for the police to come and tell them to move along.

If he had a Taurus Judge, loaded with buckshot, and he began firing at the left side of the group, how fast would he have to sweep the gun to the right to disperse the buckshot evenly?

What time would he reach Chicago?