TexasCHLforum.com

In what is being described as mad man being killed by police after refusing to put down his gun in Las Vegas, is taking a turn for the worse as it appears a CHL holder was gunned down by police who took his movements as threatening, when maybe he thought he was only complying with their instructions.

"The witnesses differed in their recollection of what one of the officers said.

Amesbury heard, "I told you to stop. Stop."

Two witnesses interviewed Sunday heard, "Drop it."

A fourth witness, interviewed Saturday, heard, "Get down," "Put it down," or "Get out of the way."

A second anonymous witness said Sunday he saw Scott pull up his shirt and turn toward the shouting officer. Then he saw the man get shot, drop to his knees and fall face-first in front of the entrance.

"There wasn't even time for someone to react," the second witness said. "The guy didn't pull a gun. There was no gun in his hand, there was no gun on the ground."

The second witness said he was interviewed by homicide detectives and gave them the same account.

The first anonymous witness also didn't see Scott make a threat.

"I certainly did not see the guy do anything with a gun that would threaten anybody," the first witness said Sunday. "It appeared to me that if he had guns on him, that they were literally in his pocket or in his waist."

The first witness also was interviewed by homicide detectives about the shooting.

Amesbury said he did not see the man get shot, but, "When I go around the corner, I see this guy laid out. I didn't see a gun." Amesbury's view of the shooting was blocked by stone pillars. He was not interviewed by police.

Before the shooting, Scott was walking with a woman that three witnesses thought was his girlfriend. They said she became distraught after the shooting. The incident also left the witnesses shaken.

It's just incredible "with all these people around that Metro would provoke something there," the second witness said. "I don't want to second-guess the police, but wouldn't it have been better to confront him out at his car?"

After the shooting, some people in the crowd panicked. An elderly woman was knocked down and cut her elbow in the chaos, the second witness said.

Only Scott was struck by gunfire .

Police said Scott had two handguns on him when he was shot. Goodman said Scott had a concealed-weapons permit.

Pusateri said his friend was a "safety freak" around guns. He said that "absolutely not in a million years" would Scott be careless with them around others.

Scott graduated from West Point, in New York, in 1994 and was stationed for a time at Fort Hood, Texas, as a tank platoon leader. In 2003, he graduated from Duke University in North Carolina with a master's degree in business administration."

Costco employees apparently freaked out when one employee saw part of a gun a CHL holder was carrying. They told him CCW were not allowed in the store although the store had no signs. They called the police and began evacuating the store calling it a bomb scare. Our victim was exiting the store with all the other customers and his girlfriend. A Costco employee pointed him out to a police officer at the door who allowed him to pass. Two officers outside already had their weapons drawn. Outside the officers stopped him. He apparently raised his shirt, either to show the gun to the officers or as they thought to reach for the gun.

He was then killed with at least 7 bullets fired by the police, in front of his girlfriend and the other shoppers.

The point here for us is that in dealing with police officers, the hands go slowly up in the air and never go anywhere else.

Link, please? Thanks in advance.

That's scary!!

philip964,

We do require a link to a story such as this.
Please supply.
LT

The point here for us is that in dealing with police officers, the hands go slowly up in the air and never go anywhere else.

The point is that concealed means concealed.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/ju ... in-costco/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010/ju ... un-permit/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.8newsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=12793800" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.lvrj.com/news/slaying-of-arm ... 23884.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This incident has turned into a liars' contest. I wonder if they will ever get the truth out.

FWIW, the dead man had no criminal or mental illness record and was gainfully employed.

- Jim

Oh, the anti-gunners are going to be hopping all over this one...

This is awful ....

http://www.lvrj.com/news/slaying-of-arm ... 23884.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Find this article at:
http://www.lvrj.com/news/slaying-of-arm ... 23884.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Follow up story ...

http://www.lvrj.com/news/man-did-not-pu ... 79344.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



Find this article at:
http://www.lvrj.com/news/man-did-not-pu ... 79344.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so sad. Not sure what to say. Only Video evidence would clear up this story. If this guy was killed and his CCW is holstered, those who shot him should be tried as Murderers. Still I am torn why the guy did not corporate as claimed in the report.

It is still early and mixed reports coming from different sources, but one article says the witnesses did hear 'Drop it', 'Put it down', or other similar commands from the officers. Those are commands that would indicate he had a weapon in his hand. Otherwise, the commands would have been to keep his hands up or on his head, don't move, etc.

There should be surveillance video that hopefully will clear this up and show the whole event.

philip964 wrote:Costco employees apparently freaked out when one employee saw part of a gun a CHL holder was carrying. They told him CCW were not allowed in the store although the store had no signs. They called the police and began evacuating the store calling it a bomb scare. Our victim was exiting the store with all the other customers and his girlfriend. A Costco employee pointed him out to a police officer at the door who allowed him to pass. Two officers outside already had their weapons drawn. Outside the officers stopped him. He apparently raised his shirt, either to show the gun to the officers or as they thought to reach for the gun.

So let's look at this one way: Costco's unfriendly policy treats legal CCW holders as viscous criminals and describes them to cops that way?

<Permanently cancels Costco membership>

Beiruty wrote:If this guy was killed and his CCW is holstered, those who shot him should be tried as Murderers.

I think it's a bit early for that. Let's take Keith B's advice and wait to see what a video camera might show.

I'm personally very torn on this. On one hand, I can obviously empathize with the CHL holder's plight in this case. That's no way to go out. But on the other hand, the police show up to a call about "man with gun" and perhaps the guy whips around, startled by the sound of the cops yelling, perhaps his cover shirt blows open, revealing the gun, realizing this perhaps the CHLee grabs at his shirt instinctively trying to reconceal? .... put yourself in the cops' shoes, would you fire at that point? I mean, do you have to see the muzzle of the "bad guy's" gun before you open fire? Remember this is all happening in the blink of an eye.

Seamus is right. CONCEALED MEANS CONCEALED. Someone at that Costco spotted this guy's gun and called the police. Did they over-react? It would seem to all of us, who are well-versed in legal concealed carry, that they did. But again, try on the Costco employee's shoes. All you know is there is a man with a gun in your store. You don't know if he's a "good guy" or "bad guy". And of course some stock boy on the floor probably saw it, reported to a floor manager, who reported to an assistant manager, who reported to the head manager in charge, who calls 911, who contacts dispatch, who contacts the officers .... and somewhere in that chain of conversation perhaps the "crazy man breaking stuff and waving a gun" gets embelished into the discussion.

Also think OP is correct, if cops have their guns trained on you move VERY SLOWLY and raise your hands above your head and obey their commands precisely.

And again, even with all those caveats, this is still an awful tragedy for the dead man's family, regardless of why or who is to blame.

My "theory" of the events so far:
1) the CHLer, was somehow unsatisfied in his purchase or return , get agitated and upset.
2) Tried "to dump" Costco Merchandise (this is the claim of destroying costco goods)
3) Somehow who ever was dealing with the CHLer noticed a bugle and since most like that employee has some security background figured out it was a gun.
4) CHLer tried to leave Costco when 911 was placed.
5) Cops with drawn guns ordered to the CHLer to stop and drop to the ground.
6) CHLer refused the order and kept walking (attempt to weasel out of his misbehavior that led to 911 call) the or turned back when tapped on the shoulder and his may have been registered as reach for his gun.
7) CHLer Gun drawn or not is in doubt.
8) CHLer got shot multiple times and died. ( over reaction by the responding officers or justified is still in question).

I believe since there are contradicting witnesses reporting different events. Best to turn the investigation to state or Federal level investigators.

And I have a "theory' that the cops shot him because they don't like clean-cut, white, English-speaking Army veterans. I agree that this incident should be investigated by a disinterested agency. Probably the family will file a federal lawsuit in the morning.

- Jim

seamusTX wrote:I agree that this incident should be investigated by a disinterested agency. Probably the family will file a federal lawsuit in the morning.

- Jim

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