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I went to 6th street in Austin with some friends. I was the designated driver. I don't have a lockbox in my car and since we were going to a bar I left my protection at home. Austin is chill, no problems at the bar, went to Magnolia Cafe around 2am.

After we left I decided to drive my friends around to sober up some before we went home. After wandering for about 30 minutes we ended up on the east side close to dove springs. Out of nowhere a person in a F350 intentionally, I think, aims his truck at us. He came literally within 2 inches of my side mirror. I was stopped and my tires were on the curb. I was thankful he didn't hit us but then I noticed he was turning around, I did not know his intentions. The first thing I thought was crap I don't have a gun on me. THANKFULLY we were next to an elementary school and there was a cop sitting there doing paperwork, he didn't see anything that had happened right in front of him. I pulled up to him and pointed out the truck and explained quickly what had happened. The cops took off after him, and caught him. I was probably lucky there was a cop RIGHT THERE. I left and do not know what happened.

Right then and there I decided that I will never NOT have my gun on me unless it is 100% ILLEGAL. When seconds mattered I was lucky there was a cop there. I will never take that kind of chance again.

GreezyG wrote:I was probably lucky there was a cop RIGHT THERE.

Probably??? You were EXTREMELY lucky!

this is why i just stay away from places i cant carry.

I always do my best to avoid areas and hours that invite stuff like this. I know its hard to avoid idiots on the roadway, but I have to assume you were driving around late at night or in the early morning hours. My brother does this all the time and I tell him it's only a matter of time before something bad happens.

lowonair wrote:this is why i just stay away from places i cant carry.

Justin CHL wrote:I always do my best to avoid areas and hours that invite stuff like this.

Good advice and you heard it right here on the Texas CHL forum.

Are you suggesting you'd have shot at this other vehicle if you'd had a gun? Say the truck turned around and came at your vehicle again, would you have shot at it under the assumption that the driver was deliberately trying to run into you?

That might not turn out too well for you, especially since you were apparently in a vehicle yourself, not on foot. How many times have you read about people with medical problems losing control of a vehicle? We had a guy just drive off the road right across from our house a few years ago. It sure looked intentional --but it turned out the guy had a stroke.

Maybe the guy was changing CD's, came too close to your vehicle, and then decided he was going the wrong direction, so he turns around and it looks like he's coming back at you, when the reality is something quite innocent. What if the guy was drunk? By both the letter and practical application of the law, I don't think you can use deadly force on drunk drivers.

Maybe you're just talking about a scenario where the other vehicle comes back at you, stops, and the occupants come after you, but it seems like your best legal recourse is going to be to drive away. Again, might be different if you were on foot, but it sounds like you were in a vehicle.

I'm curious about what kind of scenario you see playing out under those circumstances that would justify the use of deadly force?

Oldgringo wrote:

lowonair wrote:this is why i just stay away from places i cant carry.

Justin CHL wrote:I always do my best to avoid areas and hours that invite stuff like this.

Good advice and you heard it right here on the Texas CHL forum.

Ab - so - lutely!

VMI77 wrote:Are you suggesting you'd have shot at this other vehicle if you'd had a gun? Say the truck turned around and came at your vehicle again, would you have shot at it under the assumption that the driver was deliberately trying to run into you?

I didn't see even a hint he was suggesting he would have used a gun; only that he wished he had had it if the need had arisen.

Chas.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:

VMI77 wrote:Are you suggesting you'd have shot at this other vehicle if you'd had a gun? Say the truck turned around and came at your vehicle again, would you have shot at it under the assumption that the driver was deliberately trying to run into you?

I didn't see even a hint he was suggesting he would have used a gun; only that he wished he had had it if the need had arisen.

Chas.

Maybe it was just a bad weekend for guys in F-350s. I was on my way home from the bar Sun morning in downtown Houston about 3am and the guy in front of me (in an F-350) hopped the curb and drove smack into a parking garage. Or maybe people should just not drive home drunk. Yea, thats gotta be it.

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I didn't see even a hint he was suggesting he would have used a gun; only that he wished he had had it if the need had arisen.
Chas.

Really, not even a hint? He said: "I was thankful he didn't hit us but then I noticed he was turning around, I did not know his intentions. The first thing I thought was crap I don't have a gun on me."

I don't know, but just going by the description, at this point NOTHING has happened, except someone drove by his car too close, perhaps recklessly, and he's expressing concern about the intentions of the driver turning around, and his FIRST THOUGHT is "crap I don't have a gun on me." Yes, you can read that as "crap, I don't have a gun on me, what if this guy does ABC? --but in that particular situation, what's the ABC where using a gun is the appropriate response instead of just driving off?

If I had to guess, I'd guess in favor of the OP being prepared and alert to the unexpected, and concerned about being able to defend himself, as in your response. But I can also see how his remark can be read another way, which is why I asked the question. I'm not trying to be critical, I'm just curious about his thinking at that moment. The clear cut situations that justify the use of deadly force we don't have to worry about so much, it's the ambiguous situations that will more likely get us into trouble, and it is those scenarios that I think are most interesting and valuable to explore.

VMI77 wrote: The clear cut situations that justify the use of deadly force we don't have to worry about so much, it's the ambiguous situations that will more likely get us into trouble, and it is those scenarios that I think are most interesting and valuable to explore.

Well said VMI77!

VMI77 wrote:

Charles L. Cotton wrote:I didn't see even a hint he was suggesting he would have used a gun; only that he wished he had had it if the need had arisen.
Chas.

Really, not even a hint? He said: "I was thankful he didn't hit us but then I noticed he was turning around, I did not know his intentions. The first thing I thought was crap I don't have a gun on me."

I don't know, but just going by the description, at this point NOTHING has happened, except someone drove by his car too close, perhaps recklessly, and he's expressing concern about the intentions of the driver turning around, and his FIRST THOUGHT is "crap I don't have a gun on me." Yes, you can read that as "crap, I don't have a gun on me, what if this guy does ABC? --but in that particular situation, what's the ABC where using a gun is the appropriate response instead of just driving off?

If I had to guess, I'd guess in favor of the OP being prepared and alert to the unexpected, and concerned about being able to defend himself, as in your response. But I can also see how his remark can be read another way, which is why I asked the question. I'm not trying to be critical, I'm just curious about his thinking at that moment. The clear cut situations that justify the use of deadly force we don't have to worry about so much, it's the ambiguous situations that will more likely get us into trouble, and it is those scenarios that I think are most interesting and valuable to explore.

Even if that was the case...the truck "allegedly" tried to hit them...missed and turned around. At this point my gun would be out of the holster. If I did not have a way out and he was for sure coming at me...AGAIN...your darn tootin I would fire on him.

At this point I am truly in fear for my life (more people are killed in car accidents than by gun fire). He is trying to hit me with his truck and do Lord knows what...so yea I would have defended myself.

XtremeDuty.45 wrote:
Even if that was the case...the truck "allegedly" tried to hit them...missed and turned around. At this point my gun would be out of the holster. If I did not have a way out and he was for sure coming at me...AGAIN...your darn tootin I would fire on him.

At this point I am truly in fear for my life (more people are killed in car accidents than by gun fire). He is trying to hit me with his truck and do Lord knows what...so yea I would have defended myself.

My interpretation…while I can understand your opinion, I don't think this would play out well in the courts. Maybe he's coming back to apologize….maybe he has a disorder. If he had hit you and was coming at you again, that might be more in your favor. I don't know of any "case law" with similar circumstances. Does anyone else know of any case law similar to this "hypothetical" situation?

Several months ago I was first hand witness to a man who ran head on into another vehicle in League City. The man was driving a large SUV and after hitting the other vehicle, he kept pressing on the gas causing the wheels to spin. The guy was conscious and appeared to be in full control of his mental faculties….at least that's what it looked like from the side of the road. My first thought was…"what is this guy doing? is he trying to kill the people in the other car?" I know it was risky, but I went up to the SUV and opened the passenger door. The man did not look over at me. I realized then that there was something not right with this guy. I slammed the gear shift into park and took the keys. All the while this guy is still trying to drive off. The rest of the story….turns out the gentleman had a previous brain injury and was not supposed to be driving. Someone from his church had unknowingly given him their car keys so he could go get donuts. Turned out to be a bad mistake for everyone involved, but thankfully no one was seriously injured.

While one might argue that they believed they would be acting in the defense of a third party or defense of self in this thread, there are just too many unknown variables.