Talk about coincidence...and not the good kind

[kalipsocs]

Hey everyone. I only have one other post so I am a new comer, but am already way past my bed time because I got so sucked into the site! Anywho, thought I would tell my little story. I am a college student at Texas State and me and my neighbor here took our CHL class about 3 weeks ago. My dad has been on my case to do it since I turned 21, and I finally scraped enough cash together to get it going. Both my neighbor and I were in the San Antonio Express and Houston Chronicle for our being with Students for Concealed Carry on Campus and got interviewed about that topic in particular. The quote the reporter used couldn't have been more fitting for the actual story I am gettin to....I said at some point in our interview that school is not a safe place anymore and "how horrible would it be to sit under a desk and wait for the cops to come?"

Well that following week I got the answer to my question. I am currently doing an internship with a market research firm here in San Marcos for Human resources. I was at my desk doing all the lowly intern work when a heavy set african american woman comes in and says something weird regarding the presidential election. "Come again?" ...She repeats and I am just dumbfounded. "Ma'am, I have no idea what you are talking about" She replies, "Then show me the way" and wanders out of my office. At first I kind of shrugged it off and went about my business, but within a few more seconds something went off in my brain to go say something to the owner who was on site. Just about then a co-worker comes in and asks me about her and we both agree to go tell upper management as she is now wandering the building apparently. I go to the owner of the company (its small if you didn't guess) and said "There is some weird lady here asking strange questions about the elections and wandering the building?"

"She is here right now?" ..."Yea"..... Then all I hear is a high pitched scream from somewhere in the back offices. There is no explanation for that rush of adrenaline and fear in that moment. I am already pulling my phone as the owner is telling me to call the cops. I take the few other co-workers who are closer to my office into it and lock the door and am waiting on the operator. Talk to the operator, asking basic questions, then this crazed woman is at the front of the office maybe 10-15 yards from me. There were other employees trying to calm her down without touching her, but by now she is latching onto people screaming math formulas...I know I heard some Pythagroem Theorm in there, e=mc2, and a few others that I can't remember formal names for....and on the verge of physical violence. The operator said "Is that her?" and to which I have a rushed "yes!" to. The justice center is quite literally 1 block down from my work and it took right at 2 minutes for the police to respond and detain her...talk about the longest 2 mins of your life! They called an ambulance and took her away without any further incidence.

After the fact, I did a recap in my head. That was my first ever flight or fight response. Seeing as I can't carry at work even if I had my card in hand, I was obviously in flight response, looking at the only exit I had which is a thick window with no latch on it. So then I am looking around the office for something I can break and clear the glass with while talking on the phone, monitoring the situation, and trying to keep fellow employees calm. Quite an amazing thing as I look back on it.

Also, I got a true feel of how it felt to be defenseless. Now I was under the impression that I would not be justified in my situation pulling my weapon (if I were allowed to have it at work ) unless she was a legitimate threat to myself or another co-worker's safety which at that point she was just acting crazy, not violent. But thats where my mind began to wander saying....What if she started acting like that and then pulled a gun and started killing everyone she could? I mean....I felt lucky that it turned out the way it did because the way she was acting it could have just as easily went that way.

Most importantly, it really made me glad in my decision to apply for a CHL. I know it will be a long time before the card is in hand because they just received the packet yesterday, but I never want to feel like my life is at the mercy of another's will.

Thanks for reading, here is the link to the article I mentioned. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/tx/5885729.html

[The Annoyed Man]

Cameron, I'm so glad that the situation turned out OK for you, but you're right; as CHL holders, we are absolutely challenged to be the best judges we can be of what is actually happening, and the level of threat associated with it. It is an awesome responsibility. Don't ever carry that responsibility lightly.

[Keith B]

Welcome to the forum. Glad to have you here.

These types of situations can be real eye openers alerting you to things that could happen. You did well and the right things by keeping your co-workers calm and informing the police what was happening.

[Excaliber]

I never want to feel like my life is at the mercy of another's will.

Thanks for sharing this on the forum. It's an excellent specific example that anything can happen anywhere at anytime, even in very mundane and supposedly safe settings. Because it's so well written, it also provides a terrific insight into the emotional experience that one goes through during an incident, which is much different than just reading about what happened to others.

For the record, you handled yourself extremely well here. You moved from perceiving the unusual to recognizing it could have threatening implications, to notifying persons in charge, sheltering others around you, creating a barrier between you and the threat, notifying emergency responders, and accurately reporting what was going on. You even gave thought to nontraditional means of exit if necessary by considering breaking the window. Your actions could make for a pretty good list for "what to do in one of these situations."

To help you put this in perspective, history shows that in a potentially life threatening situation approximately 10-15% of people will take rapid and effective action. 10 - 15% fall apart emotionally and add to the problem. The remaining 70 - 80% will freeze or engage in random, ineffective action which does nothing to address the problem. You are clearly in the first 10 - 15%.

Furthermore, you understood that even though this particular incident didn't involve a deadly threat, the dynamics of a deadly incident would be much the same except that there wouldn't be as many folks available to talk about it later, and you gave consideration to what options you'd like to have and how you could best prepare for next time. Kudos all around. You should seriously consider a career in one of the emergency service professions.

Your experience also presents an opportunity for folks who haven't gone through what you did to reconsider the wisdom of owning an alarm system they never turn on, locks they don't secure, and CHL's whose privileges they don't exercise. Waiting for that up close and personal experience to help them understand that there are very real and deadly threats out there that can confront them anywhere and anytime would be OK if it weren't for the fact that for so many folks, the first such encounter is terminal or life altering in a major and irreversible way, and they may well not get a second chance.

[kalipsocs]

Thanks for the positive comments! I really can't explain my actions except for me putting serious, deep thought into those life threatening situations and being real about it. Everyone talks about a shootout in a public place like it happens in a vacuum, or home defense like you are when you are talking about it awake and in a well lit house, not middle of the night while groggy and poorly coordinated, scared out of your wits with adrenaline surging through you, and the place is pitch black. I have in my spare time put serious thought into what I would do in the situation and tried to walk through it periodically always trying to account for biometric "complications". Maybe it was that, maybe it was pure instinct....whatever it was, it was quick, thoughtless, and I am glad for it!

I don't think I could deal with emergency response too well though. Don't get me wrong, I have all the respect in the world to men and women in uniform, firemen, medics, doctors, and noble LEOs (not the thugs with badges though). I will just reserve my vigilance and prudence for situations that might arise in the future, but I pray they don't! Thanks guys, I appreciate the reassurance that I did it right and "by the book." Its hard to keep to that "book" in the moment, guess I did okay!

[Excaliber]

I have in my spare time put serious thought into what I would do in the situation and tried to walk through it periodically always trying to account for biometric "complications". Maybe it was that, maybe it was pure instinct....whatever it was, it was quick, thoughtless, and I am glad for it!

"Instinct" is "hard wiring" that we're born with. No one is born knowing how to handle a situation like the one you faced, and bad things happen when people try to come up with a plan they've never thought about before as a potentially life threatening incident is breaking around them. There are neurological and biological reasons for this, and they come into play big time when folks realize they're in serious trouble.

Your "what if" exercises were what paid off handsomely because you were able to adapt response elements you had already thought through to the circumstances you found yourself in. There was no need to panic, because you knew you had options and you acted on them.

Your experience confirms the 7P principle:

Proper Prior Planning Prevents P*** Poor Performance!

[InfoTechCHL2007]

Welcome and well done. I am very glad everything turned out OK overall and sincerely hope that this woman receives the mental health assistance she apparently needs.

[Lonestarm]

Good actions in the situation!
BTW, the chronicle link you give no longer works.

[stroo]

Good response to this situation. However, you said you were "defenseless". As long as your brain and body are functioning, you are NOT DEFENSELESS. Thinking that way could lead to bad consequences. Look at the recent shooting in a Tennessee church where "unarmed" people attacked and tackled the gunman. They were as "defenseless" as you were but didn't think that way. Instead they used their bodies to defend the whole congregation. So always think alternatives even when you do not have your gun with you.

You might also want to think about other weapons you can carry that don't look like weapons. Things like steel barrelled pens, canes, keys on a long chain, etc and don't forget carrying a knife.

[kalipsocs]

Carrying a knife of any length, at my job, is still considered a concealed weapon as far as my employer is concerned and not allowed as a condition of my employment. I used my mind and body and feel that I performed quite well considering it was my first time with such a situation and as I stated I know that given the circumstances I would NOT have been justified in pulling a concealed weapon on this mentally ill woman until she was a bodily threat to myself and others. Even in places I can carry, as our instructor stated and I have always felt, the firearm is the LAST resort. Retreat, avoid, defuse.....anything before the gun, because drawing and discharging that weapon opens many mental and legal doors that I would rather not.

You always relay on your brain foremost and having that clear thought in a hazy moment is the best defense of all. But those people in Tennessee were lucky if you ask me because that gunman could have taken them out too if he were more organized and methodical such as Seung-Hui Cho was in his execution. Each circumstance is different, but I don't buy into becoming more comfortable with being disarmed and having to improvise. As I stated, I was thinking of alternatives and mine was a flight response because the distances and circumstances would put me in more danger if I confronted her, and I was looking for objects to break a window and escape because I was in a 8 x 10 office with one door leading to the suspect and a inch thick pane glass window....the choice was clear to me. I am never going to sell myself on the best case scenario because as I stated as well, that situation could have been different if said lady decided to bring a gun or knife to this situation. Lastly, a bullet through your brain kind of interferes with you higher thinking abilities. Sorry for being long winded, but I think this is the false reasoning that gets people in trouble and talk themselves out of carrying in situations you could. Then you curse yourself when that godawful, unimaginable scenario happens and you have a gunman on your hands and too much distance to do anything except run or catch a few bullets with your body trying to charge him. I will never break the law or policies of my employer to carry, but relying on nothing but my wits is not good enough for me and I WAS defenseless as I am not skilled in martial arts, improvised weapons, or any other exotic DEFENSE tactics and therefore defense-less. Sorry for the rant, but I felt the way I felt, its the business owners right to bar us from having concealed weapons, but I will exercise my right to defense in every way I can after that because all it took is for one little variable to change and I could have not been speaking here today.

P.S. This is not the full story but here is the link to the short version of the story on out CHL class and the SCCC movement. http://www.examiner.com/a-1485468~Texas ... ampus.html

[stroo]

I was not being critical of what you did. You did very well. You did the right thing given the circumstances.

I was also not suggesting that you do anything illegal or even against company policy. If carrying a knife is illegal or against company policy at your work, don't carry a knife. (You seem to be at a point in life where you must work there. If not, you might consider looking for a job at someplace that is not so weapons adverse. You may not be able to do that however. My company doesn't allow weapons either, but I am at the stage of life where I can not afford to leave yet - retirement being not too far away.)

I am also not suggesting becoming comfortable with being disarmed of your gun

I was also not suggesting that running is not a viable alternative if faced with a deadly threat. It certainly is one of them and in given circumstances, is the best one.

All I was commenting on was your statement that you were "defenseless". You proved by your own actions that you were not defenseless. You not only defended yourself but also others by moving them to a more protected location. Your brain is and was your best weapon. You always need to consider your options and attacking, even if the only weapon you have is your body, rather than running may be the best one in many situations. That doesn't mean it won't get you killed; an usher who attacked in the Tennessee church was killed. But it may save lives just as that usher saved lives. And we all need to consider possible situations and options ahead of time. Otherwise we will be busy thinking through options, when we should be acting.

And I am glad that you "will exercise my right to defense in every way I can after that because all it took is for one little variable to change and I could have not been speaking here today." That really is all I was suggesting. Again well done.