What is your Limit?

[tarkus]

I won't "take" a butt whipping from anyone on the street except a uniformed peace officer. I take some damage in martial arts training but that's a controlled environment and I trust the instructor and my fellow students to stop if I tap out. Out in public it's different.

I know from experience that hands and feet can cause serious bodily injury. If a stranger assaults me then I'm morally and legally justified to use the amount of force necessary to protect myself against the stranger's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force. Notice I said stranger. My response to a drunk cousin grabbing me at a family party will be different than my response to some stranger grabbing me on the street.

[wheelgun1958]

I won't "take" a butt whipping from anyone on the street except a uniformed peace officer.

Nope, not even then.

[Bob Landry]

If I sense aggressive behavior moving towards me, I assume you are armed and that you intend bodily harm and I'll stop you in your tracks..The law says I can do that.. Game on. I will inform you that I am carrying a concealed weapon and then give you the choice as to how far you want it to go, If I see your hand moving to your pocket, I don't care what's in it..My tolerance level for that kind of garbage is zero..

[The Annoyed Man]

I won't "take" a butt whipping from anyone on the street except a uniformed peace officer.

Nope, not even then.

wheelgun1958, I appreciate your sentiment, but with all due respect, that is a huge mistake to make.

It may prove out in your favor at the officer's' trial after your funeral, but until they are charged and a court rules in your favor, you might be the one in violation of the law. What are you going to do? Shoot a cop because you were refusing to submit to a questionable arrest and you escalated it until you were the recipient of a wooden shampoo? What if your refusal to submit to the arrest was legally insupportable? What if the cop was actually right in trying to arrest you, and you — not being a lawyer with a practice in constitutional law — were actually in violation of the law and subject to arrest? You're going to resist anyway and kill him if that's what it takes to avoid getting roughed up?

The OP's original question didn't address the issue of rough treatment at the hands of police. He postulated a physical confrontation between two non-LEOs. In that context, you have absolutely no moral obligation to submit to a whuppin'. But the incidence of unrestrained police brutality, while it does happen very rarely, is not something that most police encounters are going to involve. And even in the most egregious circumstances, wisdom dictates passive cooperation. You can always take them down in a courtroom later if you have right and justice on your side. Even the infamous Rodney King would not have gotten the whuppin he received if he had just complied.

Just my 2¢, and again, no disrespect intended.

[chabouk]

Oregon state supreme court recently ruled that individuals are entitled to use force to resist wrongful arrest. That might mean you get found not guilty at trial, but only after the beat-down and trip to jail.

[karder]

If anyone attacks you, it is because they believe they have an advantage over you. I am not talking about two guys jaw wagging at each other until someone punches the other, but rather someone "picking" a fight with you. This is why the elderly, frail, and physically small people are at a greater danger of being a victim of a crime than say, your average linebacker. If you are in a situation where you have a guy, roughly your size and weight, picking a fight with you, you need to ask yourself why? Why does this guy think has an advantage over me? Does he have friends? Is he armed? Is he under the influence of a substance?

Most times the guys who are itching for a fight, take the time to select someone a fair bit smaller than themselves to confront. They are not looking for a contest, but rather to beat someone up.

With that in mind, try to stay out of confrontations. If you are carrying a gun, the responsibility is even greater. While it may be honorable to take a couple of punches rather than pull your weapon, you cannot afford to let your gun fall into someone else's hand. If you are accosted by someone intent on fighting with you, and you have no way to get out, it is safer to pull your weapon than get into a wrestling match with someone you don't know who is obviously up to no good.

[Oldgringo]

{SIGH|

[marksiwel]

I've gone my entire life without having to lay a hand on someone in anger. I've avoided fights even when it made me look like a "wimp" or when I knew I would win.
Now if someone lays there hands on me now, it because they want to hurt me, rob me, or kill me. Any of these situations will end with me (In this order)
1. Trying to get away from that person
2. If unable to get away, I will pepper spray that person (Pepper spray on Key Chain)
3. If that isnt enough, or they are threatening me/others with deadly force, I will draw down on them.
4. If I dont have a gun, or am unable to get to it, I will result to pulling out my knife, and going at it with Fists, Feet, Teeth and Knife.
I dont "Fight Fair" I'll throw sand in your eyes, kick you in the crotch, or poke out your eye, because if we are fighting it is because YOU are the aggressor.

As far as fighting with the cops? Never. I'll play along and not say a word. Even if they strike me unnecessarily, because knowing LEOs I know they will stick up for each other beyond what some would say is "Common Sense"

[dukalmighty]

I'm disabled and have a fused vertebrate with hardware in my neck,a hard blow could paralyze or kill me,But even if I was healthy,and voluntarily got in a fist fight,at the point that I surerender and quit fighting,in OTW concede victory to my opponent ,and he continues to attack with the intent to commit great bodily harm I'm gonna disengage and draw.As CHL holders I think we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard and try to resolve issues peacefully without violence unless threatened with death or great bodily harm.In my experience most arguments that continue until it becomes physical usually invilve alcoholic beverages,something that if you are armed should drink in moderation,or abstain from.

[lazypineapple]

You can be knocked out with 1 punch,,,,,,,,,,,,,they got your gun now,
you can be killed with 1 punch.
I can't afford to "find my limit"

[hotrodscott]

you can be killed with 1 punch.

There have been two fatalities in the Austin area alone in the past year or so from a guy getting punched and then falling down and cracking his head on the concrete.

[dihappy]

Too true. This isnt holywood, "manly, honorable" fist fights are probably rarer than getting struck by lightning.

If you get on some strangers nerves in a bar for staring at his wife/girlfriend. Are you really going to trust that all he wants to do is exchange fists? Or that he will stop when you go down on one knee?

Can you guarantee that you will not have brain damage or die from a well placed punch to the head, or not fall and spill your brains out on the sidewalk?

No sir! I will never fight fair if i can help it.

[C-dub]

I'm not old yet, but I am to many. When it comes to getting into a fight with someone younger, I remember a line from somewhere that goes something like this, "I've got five minutes you've never seen before." I'll avoid a fight when at all possible. We're adults now and win or lose, the consequences are much higher than just being sent to the principal's office and and losing a couple of recesses.

[dewayneward]

Stop watching karate movies and thinking that after you get hit by someone you are gona get up (or take it) and then do a little kissy foot with them in the street. Unless you are a loud mouthed punk that shouldnt have a CHL, you are doing EVERYTHING in your power to stay off the radar and a fight is the result of someone picking you out to mess with.

If that were to happen to me (and I have a lot of martial arts training), I am going to view them as a threat to me and my families future and respond accordingly.

As a previous poster mentioned, I am not going to shoot cousin bob after he had too many drinks and gets a little mouthy, this is the Goliath with the tarantula tattoo on his neck that squares off against you at the gas station with your family in your minivan.

I dont take it lightly at all, but I am not going to bet my families future to whether or not I can hold my own in a fist fight with some joker.

I get very passionate about this because I teach folks karate and they all his this "bruce lee" mentality that if they take karate (or other martial art) that they are going to hold their own against 10 guys. RIDICULOUS!!! Karate/martial arts isnt meant to impress your girl/boyfriend, it is meant to be used to prevent an attack from an opponent. The self defense is meant to take out the opponent and then beat feet out of there, not pull a rocky move.

Sorry, I get a little crazy with some of these posts

[chartreuse]

I won't "take" a butt whipping from anyone on the street except a uniformed peace officer.

Nope, not even then.

With respect, sometimes you don't have much say in the matter.

I've been beaten unconscious twice in my life. First time was when a buddy and I intervened when three guys had another guy on the floor and were kicking his head in. Didn't know what, if anything, he'd done to provoke that, but it looked like they were fixin' to either kill him or do him serious damage (probably without intending to, but regrets the next morning don't fix anything). We approached them politely, but that didn't help. They put my bud down, I put two of them down and the third ate my lunch. Second time was a guy screaming obscenities at my wife. He was twice my size and I knew that it wasn't going to end well, but felt I had no choice but to reprimand him.

Those incidents were both in England, when I was unarmed. With hindsight, and the benefit of having given some thought to the responsibilities one shoulders when carrying a concealed weapon, I would still intervene in the first case, but would walk away from the second.