Washington St. OCers take a page from OCT playbook

[Jumping Frog]

I put this in the "Never Again" forum, because I hope something so stupid as this never happens again. If the mods feel like a different forum is more appropriate, please accept my apologies and move it where you see fit.

The title of the page was "How Not To Make Friends And Still Influence People"

[Washington] State Senate bans openly carried guns in public gallery

Lt. Gov. Brad Owen announced Friday that the public will no longer be able to openly carry firearms in the state Senate chamber's public viewing area.

Owen, a Democrat who also serves as president of the Senate, said a notice of the change will be posted outside the gallery at the Capitol, likely before Monday's floor session.

"We're just noting that open carry is a form of demonstration and it's no different than carrying a placard or something else of that nature," he said.

Owen said he spoke with leadership from both caucuses in the Senate and had their support for his decision.

People could still bring their concealed guns into the gallery, as long as they have a concealed pistol license.

Alan Gottlieb, founder and chairman of the Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, said he was disappointed with the behavior of some of the protesters in the House gallery on Thursday.

Some handled their firearms in a way that was not safe and opened the door for lawmakers to react, Gottlieb said. "I think it hurts our cause and sets us back," he said.

In the first picture, what's with the duct tape on his leg? Is that an improvised drop holster? Also is the guy on the right behind the door wearing a gas mask? Why?

Seems the politically inept confuse attention with clout.

If I was sitting in Starbucks or a fast food joint (or Luby's . . .), for example, and that guy with the AR pistol walked through the door holding it in his arms like that, I'd conclude an active shooter event was unfolding and have my front sight on his center of mass as quickly as I could draw. A person holding a firearm in his arms like that (low ready, mag in gun) is definitely a threat until proven otherwise. Hopefully, the situation would unfold so that I would not have to shoot as I would prefer not to have to deal with the aftereffects (mental, moral, legal, etc.) of shooting someone because they were an idiot short on brain cell supply who was trying to demonstrate instead of being an actual active shooter.

[C-dub]

Duct tape? Probably not. I bet it's a drop leg holster leg strap.

[Keith B]

Another stupid move by stupid people pushing their 'rights'. I agree with open carry laws and being able to exercise them. However, the method of long gun carry can be interpreted differently. A rifle slung across the back or in shoulder carry in the back is peaceful open carry. Carrying at port arms, or in military patrol ready position, as the guy in the photo is doing, is intimidating and could be conceived as a manner to calculate alarm.

Here are examples. Top three are not OK in my book when you are in a peaceful display of open carry.

[The Annoyed Man]

Seems the politically inept confuse attention with clout.

JF, if I may, I am going to use this quote over and over again when talking to or about knuckleheads in the open carry movement. It encapsulates the entire problem in one tidy sentence. "They are idiots" is also short and tidy........... and true........ but it doesn't even begin describe what they are idiots about, or why.

I am like a lot of other people who are in favor of unlicensed carrying, openly or concealed, who deeply resent the fact that it is THESE fools with whom the national open carry movement will be identified in the media, and not the millions of normal, sane, peaceful people who revere the Constitution and want to see the same reverence from our government.

Martin Luther King Jr's civil rights movement faced a similar problem in the 1960s, when some people automatically associated anything to do with racial equality protests with the more violent speech of Malcom X in the earlier years of his advocacy. But even Malcom X eventually recognized that the pacifist methods of Dr. King were more effective for the cause, and he toned down his rhetoric and began advocating nonviolence alongside King. His former followers killed him for it, but it was the peaceful methods of King that won the day and convinced the rest of America that the cause was just. But the violent speech of the radicals merely alienated white America even further, and convinced them that the civil rights movement was dangerous to the stability of the country—which of course was preposterous. But how much sooner would the pacifist civil rights movement have prevailed if there weren't any radicals tied to it in the public's mind?

That is where we are today. The 2nd Amendment and its expression are a civil rights issue. When radicals get involved in it, they do damage to the cause, and exactly ZERO movement forward.

[Charles L. Cotton]

Sadly, some will loudly proclaim that they are just exercising their constitutional right and there's no reason for alarm. After all, they are just educating the public on their gun rights.

Several months ago, I saw a video from a gun dealer in another state blasting OCT for their tactics because it was causing their legislature to consider curbs on carrying of long guns. I think it was Oklahoma, but I could be mistaken. There was so much profanity, I couldn't post it on the Forum.

What's that old saying, "with friends like these . . ."

Chas.

[The Annoyed Man]

Sadly, some will loudly proclaim that they are just exercising their constitutional right and there's no reason for alarm. After all, they are just educating the public on their gun rights.

Several months ago, I saw a video from a gun dealer in another state blasting OCT for their tactics because it was causing their legislature to consider curbs on carrying of long guns. I think it was Oklahoma, but I could be mistaken. There was so much profanity, I couldn't post it on the Forum.

What's that old saying, "with friends like these . . ."

Chas.

Also a problem is that this kind of "my way or the highway" thinking they exhibit makes it almost impossible for them to get past the psychological hurdle of admitting that they might have been wrong. They are psychologically fragile, and if they admit that they might have been wrong about this, then they might have to admit they've been wrong about a lot of things.......and that is the hallmark of a fundamentally insecure person. They can't admit that they could have been in error, so rather than back away from the tactic, they double-down on it instead.

In that great podcast interview of you, Alice Tripp, and CJ Grisham, one of the things that stood out for me is that both you and Alice told CJ that sometimes mistakes get made, but that once the silly season is over, you look back at your successes and failures during the session, and where you had failures, you say "OK, I know now not to do that again", and you move on and try other things going forward. But because of their emotional immaturity and consequent irrationality, these radical OC types don't have the ability to be self-analytical or self-critical. Everything they think of is always brilliant, and when it blows up in their faces, it's always someone else's fault. My son was like that when he was about 3, but it didn't last because he grew up. The crazies in the OC movement have never progressed beyond that point in their intellectual or emotional development.

You would think that after the beatdown that OCTC took from the pro-gun community over their stunt in Austin, the people in Washington would have taken note and tried another tactic.

They are not smart enough for that.

[VoiceofReason]

Question,
I am a little slow on the uptake sometimes and this just came to mind. Do the OCT folks want to carry a rifle around all day wherever they are going? Do they want to be able to go into a restaurant and lean their rifle in the corner while they eat? Grab their rifle when they go to the restroom so they can keep an eye on it?

I really and truly hope that’s not the case.

[G.A. Heath]

Question,
I am a little slow on the uptake sometimes and this just came to mind. Do the OCT folks want to carry a rifle around all day wherever they are going? Do they want to be able to go into a restaurant and lean their rifle in the corner while they eat? Grab their rifle when they go to the restroom so they can keep an eye on it?

I really and truly hope that’s not the case.

They (OCT, OCTC, CATI, ect.) Open Carried Long Guns into a number of restaurants leading to MDA pulling a number of media events where they got the businesses to ask customers not to bring guns into their stores while not really banning them. PR wise it was a VERY bad idea, to the point that OCT and others actually issued a joint press release saying they were stopping the practice.

[LDB415]

On another forum I've often used the phrase "dumber than dirt liberal morons", in part because it really tweaks a couple of participants that really need tweaking. This thread with it's photos confirms my suspicion that it isn't just liberal morons who are dumber than dirt at times. I guess it's got to be just dumber than dirt morons to include these ever so deserving candidates.

[Salty1]

What bothers me the most is the first picture. I would be very concerned if somebody approached me in that manor without a badge clearly present. How would I be expected to know that he is not an immediate threat? Walking around like that is an invitation to get shot......

[Charles L. Cotton]

What bothers me the most is the first picture. I would be very concerned if somebody approached me in that manor without a badge clearly present. How would I be expected to know that he is not an immediate threat? Walking around like that is an invitation to get shot......

Exactly! The open-carry bomb-throwers would argue that "there's nothing to fear" and apparently expect normal armed citizens to be willing to take the first round and hope you survive, at least long enough to return fire.

Chas.

[Keith B]

See my post above. Carrying in patrol ready mode is NOT 'non-threatening' open carry.