Approached By A Stranger While Pumping Gas

[Medic624]

I noticed at least two posts in this thread that asked why the Police had not responded by the time that the poster had finished pumping their gas.

As a counterpoint to Speedsix's tongue in cheek reply (which did make me chuckle), the short version is that LEO's don't have any exemptions from the laws of space and time.

It takes time for a dispatcher to gather information, it takes time to transmit that information, and it takes time to get from wherever the officer was when he received the call to where he is needed. The incident in the OP's post wasn't a Code 3 (lights and sirens) call, and even running code saves only a fairly small amount of time. This is the real reason behind the saying that when you have only seconds, the police are just minutes away.

If you've ever been late for an appointment and tried to compress the time it takes to get to your destination to fit the time remaining until you're due there, you have some idea of the challenges involved.

Time and space don't compress much, even when we want them to.

I guess I failed to make my point. I really don't understand why anyone would expect a response in that short a time. Seems to be totally unrealistic to me...

You're right that it's unrealistic, but there's a reason for it:

Very few folks have ridden in an emergency vehicle where they would actually get to see how long all this takes.

Their expectations regarding of response time come primarily from TV or the movies where you see a couple of seconds of the call, a couple of seconds of a police car running code 3, and - wa la - the officers are on scene and taking action. They fail to realize that every piece of the action they're seeing has been compressed to allow enough time for commercials.

They then become deeply disappointed when their call becomes 30 seconds old and they find that Captain Kirk hasn't yet beamed down from the Enterprise with a security team and phasers set on stun, and fail to appreciate that a response time anywhere under 10 minutes is pretty darn good. Under 5 minutes and it's your lucky day - buy a lottery ticket.

In rural areas, good time stretches out to the 25 - 30 minute mark due to long distances and sparse patrol coverage.

+1000

Having been a Paramedic many years I can attest that Lights and Sirens MAYBE buys you 30-60 seconds when there are lights and traffic involved. Not until they institute jet pack toting flying PoPo or Ambulances that ain't gonna change. In the chain of information there are multiple stops from the initial caller to the responding officer/medic it's a lag that the general populous doesn't know about, think about and therefore take into account. Unless situation happens in the parking lot of the station just after shift change you're in for a bit of a wait.

Sorry a little off the OP but had to add my .02

Carry on...

[SQLGeek]

As a result of this particular thread I have taken to carrying my Glock 19 with 14 rounds in it, instead of my XD40 with 8 rounds per mag.

Why are you downloading by two if you don't mind my asking?

Because I change holsters sometimes and only one of them can carry the extra mag on the XD-40. Depends on my attire for the day. With the Glock I know that I have a "Illegal in California" magazine with 14 rounds at ALL times.
With the XD, I may have 8 rds or I may have 16 rds.

I understand. I guess what I'm asking is why not load the G19 to its full 15+1?

[Purplehood]

As a result of this particular thread I have taken to carrying my Glock 19 with 14 rounds in it, instead of my XD40 with 8 rounds per mag.

Why are you downloading by two if you don't mind my asking?

Because I change holsters sometimes and only one of them can carry the extra mag on the XD-40. Depends on my attire for the day. With the Glock I know that I have a "Illegal in California" magazine with 14 rounds at ALL times.
With the XD, I may have 8 rds or I may have 16 rds.

I understand. I guess what I'm asking is why not load the G19 to its full 15+1?

Oh that is simple...my little hands simply can't stuff the last two rounds into the magazine.

[SQLGeek]

That I can empathize with.

[koolaid]

Oh that is simple...my little hands simply can't stuff the last two rounds into the magazine.

Google search UpLULA and enjoy the greatest invention in human history.

[LikesShinyThings]

Oh that is simple...my little hands simply can't stuff the last two rounds into the magazine.

Google search UpLULA and enjoy the greatest invention in human history.

+1 - UpLULAs are great devices!

[johnson0317]

Praises for the might UpLula! I found it strangely satisfying that Hickok45 has taken to using one in his videos. He always used to load without one, and made it look pretty darn easy. I think he was a little embarrased to use it at first, but now it is second nature for him.

RJ

[jasminhatcher]

I would be very careful around Walmarts. They tend to have absolutely no security and a lot of undesirables loiter around the parking lots. Glad to hear you’re fine.

[RoyGBiv]

In early July I was in Winston Salem, NC. Long story short, I was downtown, on Saturday evening (before sunset) and was nearly out of gas. Below "E" on the rental car. No excuse. I should have known better.

I pull into a gas station right near my highway entrance and start pumping gas. It's a typical inner city area. 4 other cars in the station, 2 at pumps and 2 at the convenience store. I'm busy watching around the station, my back is to the car. After about a half tank I spot two guys to my left, across the street, looking at me and taking to each other. Maybe 50 yards away.

The two guys start walking towards me. I stopped pumping gas, hung up the hose and closed my gas cap. Relaxed attitude, but not wasting time, less than 10 seconds. The two guys split up. One walked over behind the pump I was using and the other was headed straight for me. I turned my strong side to the car. The guy walks between me and the pump (Imagine yourself standing at the gas pump. How much room is there between you, your car and the pump? Would you ever think about waking between someone else's car and the pump? ) stops just past me and just looks at me. I stared back and could feel my heart pumping. The guy says "Hey Man"... I said "How's it goin'?" He took maybe a 1 second pause and as he walked on I got in my car and drove away.

I guess they were just trying to have some fun with me.
Thankfully, NC and TX are reciprocal states.

Lesson 1: Never drive with less than a 1/4 tank of gas.
Lesson 2: Always carry.

[saltydog452]

This thread has taken more turns than a can of worms.

Back to the gas pump please.

That is something that all of us do from time-to-time. Lots of fuel islands have overhead gizmos that kinda/sorta look like they might be cameras. If operational, they are mounted high up and capture an image at an acute angle.

I'd imagine camera boxes are there as a possible deterent to drive-offs, not to protect customers. Kinda doubtful also that they capture images and play them back in High Definition.

Just a suggestion, but maybe the folks whose trade is instructing applicants in CHL might consider fueling and public restrooms.

We all do it and it is a vulnerable position to be in.

salty

[Excaliber]

In early July I was in Winston Salem, NC. Long story short, I was downtown, on Saturday evening (before sunset) and was nearly out of gas. Below "E" on the rental car. No excuse. I should have known better.

I pull into a gas station right near my highway entrance and start pumping gas. It's a typical inner city area. 4 other cars in the station, 2 at pumps and 2 at the convenience store. I'm busy watching around the station, my back is to the car. After about a half tank I spot two guys to my left, across the street, looking at me and taking to each other. Maybe 50 yards away.

The two guys start walking towards me. I stopped pumping gas, hung up the hose and closed my gas cap. Relaxed attitude, but not wasting time, less than 10 seconds. The two guys split up. One walked over behind the pump I was using and the other was headed straight for me. I turned my strong side to the car. The guy walks between me and the pump (Imagine yourself standing at the gas pump. How much room is there between you, your car and the pump? Would you ever think about waking between someone else's car and the pump? ) stops just past me and just looks at me. I stared back and could feel my heart pumping. The guy says "Hey Man"... I said "How's it goin'?" He took maybe a 1 second pause and as he walked on I got in my car and drove away.

I guess they were just trying to have some fun with me.
Thankfully, NC and TX are reciprocal states.

Lesson 1: Never drive with less than a 1/4 tank of gas.
Lesson 2: Always carry.

Consider lesson 3: Challenge and move if necessary before letting someone get within bad breath range where your options are severely limited if his intentions aren't good.

[johnson0317]

I would be very careful around Walmarts. They tend to have absolutely no security and a lot of undesirables loiter around the parking lots. Glad to hear you’re fine.

Seems like the Walmarts here have about 60 cameras on the roofs. Probably low-res stuff just put up there to make the customer feel like they are being protected.

[Blindref757]

As the OP...I can promise you I didn't feel protected by the dang cameras hanging above my head. Those aren't installed for me...they are installed to catch the tag numbers of deadbeats who steal gas. I never feared for my life in this incident, but I did fear that I would be faced with a very difficult but yet obvious choice to protect myself an my son. I took a great deal more comfort in knowing that I was somewhat in control of the situation and ready for a worst case scenario than any camera could provide. I have learned a ton from this incident and no stranger will ever get that close to me again at the gas pump. I let him get WAY too close for comfort. Next time, a stranger such as this will meet a much more difficult and less friendly target! A stranger at the gas pumps is not a lost puppy...he's a potential threat that needs to be kept in check.

[RoyGBiv]

In early July I was in Winston Salem, NC. Long story short, I was downtown, on Saturday evening (before sunset) and was nearly out of gas. Below "E" on the rental car. No excuse. I should have known better.

I pull into a gas station right near my highway entrance and start pumping gas. It's a typical inner city area. 4 other cars in the station, 2 at pumps and 2 at the convenience store. I'm busy watching around the station, my back is to the car. After about a half tank I spot two guys to my left, across the street, looking at me and taking to each other. Maybe 50 yards away.

The two guys start walking towards me. I stopped pumping gas, hung up the hose and closed my gas cap. Relaxed attitude, but not wasting time, less than 10 seconds. The two guys split up. One walked over behind the pump I was using and the other was headed straight for me. I turned my strong side to the car. The guy walks between me and the pump (Imagine yourself standing at the gas pump. How much room is there between you, your car and the pump? Would you ever think about waking between someone else's car and the pump? ) stops just past me and just looks at me. I stared back and could feel my heart pumping. The guy says "Hey Man"... I said "How's it goin'?" He took maybe a 1 second pause and as he walked on I got in my car and drove away.

I guess they were just trying to have some fun with me.
Thankfully, NC and TX are reciprocal states.

Lesson 1: Never drive with less than a 1/4 tank of gas.
Lesson 2: Always carry.

Consider lesson 3: Challenge and move if necessary before letting someone get within bad breath range where your options are severely limited if his intentions aren't good.

I've thought about this "lesson 3" a lot since it happened.
A potential aggressor is approaching, but I have no idea how things will unfold.
Am I about to become the target of a robbery or violence?
How do I act to dissuade the potential aggressor without "appearing like I'm looking to escalate" or "giving the aggressor reason to escalate"?

Here's what went through my head at the time....

I'm armed, witnesses around, daylight, in the open.
I can fight, I can run, I can stand my ground and prepare. But, if I begin to take obvious action to avoid some confrontation, the situation is more likely to escalate. If the potential aggressor is just "feeling me out", any obvious avoidance or aggressive action on my part will give him an immediate reason to go to the next step.... Like a child, but more dangerous. My immediate reaction was to button up the gas situation and prepare to leave the area, but, maybe the live gas pump could have been a good weapon if needed? Too much downside there I thought...

If he was intending to just have some fun and "scare the white guy", as I suspect was the case, in hindsight.... Then if I would move away from the car, or put my hands up defensively, or call him out verbally or some combination of available options, his reaction, on his turf, would almost certainly have been to "escalate the fun".... Maybe call his friend over for support.

If he was intending felony, I was ready. 6 protected, weapon ready with strong side away from the aggressor, escape routes available (I would have moved towards the convenience store).....

My gut said be ready but don't act. Turned out ok, but I think about how it could have gone otherwise.

Is taking a more aggressive response to this situation a better deterrent?...... I just didn't think so at the time.
Given the setting, I had a clear feeling that he was feeling me out, but I was ready if I was wrong.
When I looked into his eyes and didn't cower, his fun was over.

I'm certainly open to suggestions.... How else to learn?

Thanks.

[Excaliber]

In early July I was in Winston Salem, NC. Long story short, I was downtown, on Saturday evening (before sunset) and was nearly out of gas. Below "E" on the rental car. No excuse. I should have known better.

I pull into a gas station right near my highway entrance and start pumping gas. It's a typical inner city area. 4 other cars in the station, 2 at pumps and 2 at the convenience store. I'm busy watching around the station, my back is to the car. After about a half tank I spot two guys to my left, across the street, looking at me and taking to each other. Maybe 50 yards away.

The two guys start walking towards me. I stopped pumping gas, hung up the hose and closed my gas cap. Relaxed attitude, but not wasting time, less than 10 seconds. The two guys split up. One walked over behind the pump I was using and the other was headed straight for me. I turned my strong side to the car. The guy walks between me and the pump (Imagine yourself standing at the gas pump. How much room is there between you, your car and the pump? Would you ever think about waking between someone else's car and the pump? ) stops just past me and just looks at me. I stared back and could feel my heart pumping. The guy says "Hey Man"... I said "How's it goin'?" He took maybe a 1 second pause and as he walked on I got in my car and drove away.

I guess they were just trying to have some fun with me.
Thankfully, NC and TX are reciprocal states.

Lesson 1: Never drive with less than a 1/4 tank of gas.
Lesson 2: Always carry.

Consider lesson 3: Challenge and move if necessary before letting someone get within bad breath range where your options are severely limited if his intentions aren't good.

I've thought about this "lesson 3" a lot since it happened.
A potential aggressor is approaching, but I have no idea how things will unfold.
Am I about to become the target of a robbery or violence?
How do I act to dissuade the potential aggressor without "appearing like I'm looking to escalate" or "giving the aggressor reason to escalate"?

Here's what went through my head at the time....

I'm armed, witnesses around, daylight, in the open.
I can fight, I can run, I can stand my ground and prepare. But, if I begin to take obvious action to avoid some confrontation, the situation is more likely to escalate. If the potential aggressor is just "feeling me out", any obvious avoidance or aggressive action on my part will give him an immediate reason to go to the next step.... Like a child, but more dangerous. My immediate reaction was to button up the gas situation and prepare to leave the area, but, maybe the live gas pump could have been a good weapon if needed? Too much downside there I thought...

If he was intending to just have some fun and "scare the white guy", as I suspect was the case, in hindsight.... Then if I would move away from the car, or put my hands up defensively, or call him out verbally or some combination of available options, his reaction, on his turf, would almost certainly have been to "escalate the fun".... Maybe call his friend over for support.

If he was intending felony, I was ready. 6 protected, weapon ready with strong side away from the aggressor, escape routes available (I would have moved towards the convenience store).....

My gut said be ready but don't act. Turned out ok, but I think about how it could have gone otherwise.

Is taking a more aggressive response to this situation a better deterrent?...... I just didn't think so at the time.
Given the setting, I had a clear feeling that he was feeling me out, but I was ready if I was wrong.
When I looked into his eyes and didn't cower, his fun was over.

I'm certainly open to suggestions.... How else to learn?

Thanks.

During the entire approach phase, BG's are watching you closely to figure out if you'll be a good (compliant) victim or not. They capitalize on the reluctance most folks have to recognizing a threat and taking direct action to close the distance to a point where the victim is in a very poor position to resist.

Most will break off with either direct eye contact combined with a ready posture at distance, or a verbal / hand signal challenge at around 30 feet (e.g., "I don't know you. Stop there and state your business") when eye contact doesn't work. If they don't heed a direct challenge, this gives you good reason to believe that a threat is developing while there is still time to take evasive or defensive action, and it sets the stage in the minds of witnesses for who might be the good guy and the bad guy if things develop further. If the "stop" hand signal gesture is used, it also provides visual evidence that you attempted to avoid a confrontation by preserving distance and the BG persisted in closing with you, giving you good reason to believe he presented a threat. This may well be a point in your favor if direct action needs to be taken. Direct action also isn't the only option. Buttoning up the car and walking into the store may also be a viable option to avoid a direct confrontation, and removes you from the setting a potential attacker saw as favorable to him, but this decision has to be made early enough to make it practical.

Don't feel too safe just because you're armed. If you let him get within arms reach, being armed is not nearly the advantage it is further out. Even an unarmed street thug can attack and kill or disable a person before the defender could draw and fire, and gunfights at bad breath distance often don't have any winners - only degrees of losers.