Protecting Personal Property from Thugs

[Excaliber]

So the police wont help and if i were to try to get to my car, i run the risk of entering into a confrontation. And if things hit the fan, and i have to use my gun to defend myself, i would be in a heated battle where the court would be asking, why didnt i just stay away. I agree that 8 on 1 does not work to my advantage but it seems either way i get the shaft while the punks continue to be punks.

There are usually more ways than the most obvious to get to where you need to be, but sometimes they take a bit of creativity. Pooling brain power is one of the advantages of participating in this Forum.

Check out this thought which appeared in another thread:

Assuming the police aren't coming anytime soon and you want to give them a nudge without directly confronting them. Don't remember seeing this idea but it seems the perfect time to use a panic alarm on your car's remote (assuming it has one). Most people like this don't like any extra attention and having a panic alarm going off repeatedly draws just that. They may assume the alarm is from them bumping the car since you are out of sight in the building. The chance of them damaging the car out of anger is still there but not as likely to occur or at least occur to a lesser degree since they aren't teaching "you" a lesson.

Think about it.

It makes staying on the car not fun.

If done right, the alarm appears to have been triggered by the people on the car, so there's no one to retaliate against.

It does attract attention and creates motivation to find another car to sit on.

All in all, it gets the job done without the drawbacks of the more obvious approaches.

I like it.

[PRO]

So the police wont help and if i were to try to get to my car, i run the risk of entering into a confrontation. And if things hit the fan, and i have to use my gun to defend myself, i would be in a heated battle where the court would be asking, why didnt i just stay away. I agree that 8 on 1 does not work to my advantage but it seems either way i get the shaft while the punks continue to be punks.

There are usually more ways than the most obvious to get to where you need to be, but sometimes they take a bit of creativity. Pooling brain power is one of the advantages of participating in this Forum.

Check out this thought which appeared in another thread:

Assuming the police aren't coming anytime soon and you want to give them a nudge without directly confronting them. Don't remember seeing this idea but it seems the perfect time to use a panic alarm on your car's remote (assuming it has one). Most people like this don't like any extra attention and having a panic alarm going off repeatedly draws just that. They may assume the alarm is from them bumping the car since you are out of sight in the building. The chance of them damaging the car out of anger is still there but not as likely to occur or at least occur to a lesser degree since they aren't teaching "you" a lesson.

Think about it.

It makes staying on the car not fun.

If done right, the alarm appears to have been triggered by the people on the car, so there's no one to retaliate against.

It does attract attention and creates motivation to find another car to sit on.

All in all, it gets the job done without the drawbacks of the more obvious approaches.

I like it.

This is the best, "Win," posted IMO. The thugs would not like the attention. One or two may still kick or spit on you property while leaving, yet, it should solve the problem.

[hangfour]

This (a group of "thugs" huddling around my car) situation is one I hope never to find myself in especially now that I'm carrying. However, if it happened and the police would not come (for whatever reason) I hope I would just find another way home and let them hang out till they naturally move along.

Massoud Ayoob stated in his book "In the Gravest Extreme" that he sometimes carries extra cash (wrapped in a matchbook) to de-escalate potential muggings ... I like his stance on avoiding conflict when there is ANY way (even appearing chicken) out of it. Do you agree?

[The Annoyed Man]

So the police wont help and if i were to try to get to my car, i run the risk of entering into a confrontation. And if things hit the fan, and i have to use my gun to defend myself, i would be in a heated battle where the court would be asking, why didnt i just stay away. I agree that 8 on 1 does not work to my advantage but it seems either way i get the shaft while the punks continue to be punks.

That's exactly right. [sarcasm]Refreshing, isn't it?[/sarcasm]

I know exactly how to fix this, but atheists would have a problem with it, and it is probably unconstitutional anyway. As John Adams said, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” So when you ban religion from the public square, and when you assign depravity as a constitutional right, and when you enable government to usurp the personal responsibilities of the individual, this is what you get.

Welcome to it.

[Excaliber]

So the police wont help and if i were to try to get to my car, i run the risk of entering into a confrontation. And if things hit the fan, and i have to use my gun to defend myself, i would be in a heated battle where the court would be asking, why didnt i just stay away. I agree that 8 on 1 does not work to my advantage but it seems either way i get the shaft while the punks continue to be punks.

There are usually more ways than the most obvious to get to where you need to be, but sometimes they take a bit of creativity. Pooling brain power is one of the advantages of participating in this Forum.

Check out this thought which appeared in another thread:

Assuming the police aren't coming anytime soon and you want to give them a nudge without directly confronting them. Don't remember seeing this idea but it seems the perfect time to use a panic alarm on your car's remote (assuming it has one). Most people like this don't like any extra attention and having a panic alarm going off repeatedly draws just that. They may assume the alarm is from them bumping the car since you are out of sight in the building. The chance of them damaging the car out of anger is still there but not as likely to occur or at least occur to a lesser degree since they aren't teaching "you" a lesson.

Think about it.

It makes staying on the car not fun.

If done right, the alarm appears to have been triggered by the people on the car, so there's no one to retaliate against.

It does attract attention and creates motivation to find another car to sit on.

All in all, it gets the job done without the drawbacks of the more obvious approaches.

I like it.

This is the best, "Win," posted IMO. The thugs would not like the attention. One or two may still kick or spit on you property while leaving, yet, it should solve the problem.

It's even better because I don't think the kicking or spitting would happen. If this is done right, the impression created is that their own actions set off the alarm, so there's nothing to retaliate for.

That's really what makes it so clever, simple, and elegant. With virtually no effort or risk, it gets you exactly where you want to be.

[Excaliber]

So the police wont help and if i were to try to get to my car, i run the risk of entering into a confrontation. And if things hit the fan, and i have to use my gun to defend myself, i would be in a heated battle where the court would be asking, why didnt i just stay away. I agree that 8 on 1 does not work to my advantage but it seems either way i get the shaft while the punks continue to be punks.

That's exactly right. [sarcasm]Refreshing, isn't it?[/sarcasm]

I know exactly how to fix this, but atheists would have a problem with it, and it is probably unconstitutional anyway. As John Adams said, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” So when you ban religion from the public square, and when you assign depravity as a constitutional right, and when you enable government to usurp the personal responsibilities of the individual, this is what you get.

Welcome to it.

And it'll take a whole bunch of determined work through multiple election cycles to change it if America still has what it takes to do so.

I think it does, but it won't be an easy fight.

[Fangs]

...it seems either way i get the shaft while the punks continue to be punks.

I experienced something similar to this when that kid put his cigarette out on my phone. I walked away from it thinking I was deescalating the situation from what would very quickly become a physical confrontation. Some of y'all made fun of me for that.

The more I thought about it, the more I hated my decision to walk away. I've always hated injustice, it just doesn't sit right with me, and the pit it left in my stomach over that incident just grew. Until something in me changed. Guess I just got tired of being trampled on while telling myself that I'm being the bigger man.

I ran into that kid a couple months later. He recognized me as soon as he saw me. He didn't have his friends around him. I didn't go to jail. I'm not sitting here regretting my decisions.

As for the car scenario at hand, yeah, I'd call the police. If they won't help I'd bet it's at least a 50/50 chance I could strike up a convo and get them to peacefully move off my vehicle. Spent a while working at a bar and I have a way with words when it comes to drunks. Outright challenging their ego, and their perceived "right" to be there on my car isn't the way to do it. At the same time, if they aren't friendly, that's their choice.

Being flanked is an assault in progress. I'd treat it as such.

I doubt the thugs wouldn't have their drugs and weapons on them, that should help me make my case. I know you guys are terrified of lawsuits, but I don't think I'd have a hard time explaining to the officers that I called for assistance, was denied, politely asked them to leave my vehicle alone, they attacked, 8 on 1 was an unfair fight, and I defended my life accordingly.

Is it the wisest decision? No. Am I risking everyone involved's lives over a dented fender? No. They are. I have nothing to lose but my life, and I got that for free. Granted, most of you aren't in this situation and have dependents.

I was a very meek child growing up. I had to be told to be more aggressive in sports. Maybe because I was always bigger than everyone and I felt bad for hurting the other kids. Idk. I could always take insults or injustice and tell myself that I can handle it. Rather me than my fragile friends and stuff like that. I was wrong. This world has taught me that path doesn't get me where I want to go.

Too bad for the guys on my car. Too bad for me maybe. I'm just not going to die a little inside every time someone wants to walk all over me anymore.

EDIT to add - Excalibur, I can tell you like the car alarm idea. I've seen many people smash things that made loud noises at them. I've also seen 5 people scatter when the car they were trying to steal's alarm went off. So I'm thinking this could go either way. A couple hits before they scatter could still cost you hundreds of dollars in glass/paint/dent removal.

[Excaliber]

...it seems either way i get the shaft while the punks continue to be punks.

I experienced something similar to this when that kid put his cigarette out on my phone. I walked away from it thinking I was deescalating the situation from what would very quickly become a physical confrontation. Some of y'all made fun of me for that.

The more I thought about it, the more I hated my decision to walk away. I've always hated injustice, it just doesn't sit right with me, and the pit it left in my stomach over that incident just grew. Until something in me changed. Guess I just got tired of being trampled on while telling myself that I'm being the bigger man.

I ran into that kid a couple months later. He recognized me as soon as he saw me. He didn't have his friends around him. I didn't go to jail. I'm not sitting here regretting my decisions.

As for the car scenario at hand, yeah, I'd call the police. If they won't help I'd bet it's at least a 50/50 chance I could strike up a convo and get them to peacefully move off my vehicle. Spent a while working at a bar and I have a way with words when it comes to drunks. Outright challenging their ego, and their perceived "right" to be there on my car isn't the way to do it. At the same time, if they aren't friendly, that's their choice.

Being flanked is an assault in progress. I'd treat it as such.

I doubt the thugs wouldn't have their drugs and weapons on them, that should help me make my case. I know you guys are terrified of lawsuits, but I don't think I'd have a hard time explaining to the officers that I called for assistance, was denied, politely asked them to leave my vehicle alone, they attacked, 8 on 1 was an unfair fight, and I defended my life accordingly.

Is it the wisest decision? No. Am I risking everyone involved's lives over a dented fender? No. They are. I have nothing to lose but my life, and I got that for free. Granted, most of you aren't in this situation and have dependents.

I was a very meek child growing up. I had to be told to be more aggressive in sports. Maybe because I was always bigger than everyone and I felt bad for hurting the other kids. Idk. I could always take insults or injustice and tell myself that I can handle it. Rather me than my fragile friends and stuff like that. I was wrong. This world has taught me that path doesn't get me where I want to go.

Too bad for the guys on my car. Too bad for me maybe. I'm just not going to die a little inside every time someone wants to walk all over me anymore.

EDIT to add - Excalibur, I can tell you like the car alarm idea. I've seen many people smash things that made loud noises at them. I've also seen 5 people scatter when the car they were trying to steal's alarm went off. So I'm thinking this could go either way. A couple hits before they scatter could still cost you hundreds of dollars in glass/paint/dent removal.

The beauty in this idea is that most likely the thugs would think that they caused the alarm to go off. There's nothing to be gained by retribution in that case, because there's no apparent offense. Certainly anything could happen, but after having gone around the block with a few of these types of folks over the years, I think the tactic has an excellent chance of success in most cases. It certainly beats any of the other active alternatives.

The persuasive conversation approach might work for someone who is good with words, can speak the language, and can push the right buttons if the folks on the other end of that speech are in a frame of mind that's open to suggestion. I wouldn't write it off, but I don't like it because it puts you very close to them and forces you to move way up the use of force continuum in an instant if they react aggressively, as they very well may. One should ask himself beforehand if this were to happen, would the ensuing action and aftermath be worth it, because if things go that way, there won't likely be an opportunity to defuse the situation without violence.

The only other unassisted tactic that would likely be successful would be to forget about it for a while and come back later. Any direct one man intervention would be at very high risk of failure.

Feelings arising from unrelated prior events bring complexity beyond the goals of simply managing the situation to emerge personally unharmed and with an undamaged car. Only the person involved can determine if addressing them by opting for a high risk course of action in a given situation is the best way to go.

[Llanero]

So the police wont help and if i were to try to get to my car, i run the risk of entering into a confrontation. And if things hit the fan, and i have to use my gun to defend myself, i would be in a heated battle where the court would be asking, why didnt i just stay away. I agree that 8 on 1 does not work to my advantage but it seems either way i get the shaft while the punks continue to be punks.

That's exactly right. [sarcasm]Refreshing, isn't it?[/sarcasm]

I know exactly how to fix this, but atheists would have a problem with it, and it is probably unconstitutional anyway. As John Adams said, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” So when you ban religion from the public square, and when you assign depravity as a constitutional right, and when you enable government to usurp the personal responsibilities of the individual, this is what you get.

Welcome to it.

So are you saying that the thugs are atheists? Or that atheists can cause theists to act like punks?

I doubt that they were atheists. Since atheists make up only a small percentage of the population of Texas, I would be surprised if 8 of them were ever in the same place at the same time. Truth is these were probably Christians.

[jester]

So the police wont help and if i were to try to get to my car, i run the risk of entering into a confrontation. And if things hit the fan, and i have to use my gun to defend myself, i would be in a heated battle where the court would be asking, why didnt i just stay away. I agree that 8 on 1 does not work to my advantage but it seems either way i get the shaft while the punks continue to be punks.

That's exactly right. [sarcasm]Refreshing, isn't it?[/sarcasm]

I know exactly how to fix this, but atheists would have a problem with it, and it is probably unconstitutional anyway. As John Adams said, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” So when you ban religion from the public square, and when you assign depravity as a constitutional right, and when you enable government to usurp the personal responsibilities of the individual, this is what you get.

Welcome to it.

So are you saying that the thugs are atheists? Or that atheists can cause theists to act like punks?

I doubt that they were atheists. Since atheists make up only a small percentage of the population of Texas, I would be surprised if 8 of them were ever in the same place at the same time. Truth is these were probably Christians.

The 9/11 hijackers were not atheists. Neither are the Palestinians murdering Israeli children (and burning the US flag to celebrate the 9/11 murders.)

[baldeagle]

So the police wont help and if i were to try to get to my car, i run the risk of entering into a confrontation. And if things hit the fan, and i have to use my gun to defend myself, i would be in a heated battle where the court would be asking, why didnt i just stay away. I agree that 8 on 1 does not work to my advantage but it seems either way i get the shaft while the punks continue to be punks.

No offense meant, but what I see wrong with what you've written here is the approach. You see yourself as "getting the shaft", as you put it, rather than thinking of creative ways to resolve the situation without exacerbating it. The suggestion of setting off the car alarm is a perfect example of creative thinking that gets you what you want without putting you in a situation that could turn out very badly for you, even if you survive.

Instead of thinking "I'm getting shafted here!", start thinking, "How can I resolve this in the least confrontational way possible?"

Once you do that, even calling the cops might not be the best answer, much less confronting the thugs yourself.

The point is, pick your battles. When you're outnumbered 8 to 1, you don't charge in unless you've gotten orders from your superiors or you need to save someone else's life. And you do it with the full knowledge that you could lose yours in the process.

[Bob in Big D]

So the police wont help and if i were to try to get to my car, i run the risk of entering into a confrontation. And if things hit the fan, and i have to use my gun to defend myself, i would be in a heated battle where the court would be asking, why didnt i just stay away. I agree that 8 on 1 does not work to my advantage but it seems either way i get the shaft while the punks continue to be punks.

There are usually more ways than the most obvious to get to where you need to be, but sometimes they take a bit of creativity. Pooling brain power is one of the advantages of participating in this Forum.

Check out this thought which appeared in another thread:

Assuming the police aren't coming anytime soon and you want to give them a nudge without directly confronting them. Don't remember seeing this idea but it seems the perfect time to use a panic alarm on your car's remote (assuming it has one). Most people like this don't like any extra attention and having a panic alarm going off repeatedly draws just that. They may assume the alarm is from them bumping the car since you are out of sight in the building. The chance of them damaging the car out of anger is still there but not as likely to occur or at least occur to a lesser degree since they aren't teaching "you" a lesson.

Think about it.

It makes staying on the car not fun.

If done right, the alarm appears to have been triggered by the people on the car, so there's no one to retaliate against.

It does attract attention and creates motivation to find another car to sit on.

All in all, it gets the job done without the drawbacks of the more obvious approaches.

I like it.

I also like this idea as an option.

But as I get older I have found that I don't move as fast as I could as a young man so for me confronting 8 thugs is out of the question, actually confronting 1 or 2 is not a good idea because I like the idea of going home to my wife and seeing my grandkids again and would like to someday retire from the ratrace. But I really don't have a problem with walking away from a "thing" like a car, even a new one, that can be replaced and is insurred anyway. It is not worth risking your life over a thing.
If my wife was in that car surrounded by thugs, that is a whole nuther matter, and if I could not get the LEO's there quickly, even telling them that shots are about to be fired, then it could and probably would turn ugly very quickly. Truth be told.......I would not be in that part of town after dark in the first place no matter how much $$ you are paid.

[skub]

So the police wont help and if i were to try to get to my car, i run the risk of entering into a confrontation. And if things hit the fan, and i have to use my gun to defend myself, i would be in a heated battle where the court would be asking, why didnt i just stay away. I agree that 8 on 1 does not work to my advantage but it seems either way i get the shaft while the punks continue to be punks.

That's exactly right. [sarcasm]Refreshing, isn't it?[/sarcasm]

I know exactly how to fix this, but atheists would have a problem with it, and it is probably unconstitutional anyway. As John Adams said, “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” So when you ban religion from the public square, and when you assign depravity as a constitutional right, and when you enable government to usurp the personal responsibilities of the individual, this is what you get.

Welcome to it.

So are you saying that the thugs are atheists? Or that atheists can cause theists to act like punks?

I doubt that they were atheists. Since atheists make up only a small percentage of the population of Texas, I would be surprised if 8 of them were ever in the same place at the same time. Truth is these were probably Christians.

I think you completely missed the point. He was not necessarily attributing the actions to atheists, he was saying that his solution to these kind of situations would have a Biblical flavor to it, and that as such, this would not sit well with the atheist in our country.

I am curious, however, why you think that the actions of this group reflect the characteristics of those who follow Christ (Christians)?

[jimlongley]

I have heard LEOs from several different departments refer to car alarms as "crickets" implying, and even saying flat out, that they are next to useless and routinely ignored by all and sundry around them.

I have pulled into parking lots while talking on my ham radio and had a dozen or more go off nearby and not one person around even looked to see which cars were the ones beeping.

That said, it sounds like fun anyway. How about changing the panic alarm beep out to a small MP3 that says something on the order of "This vehicle is private property and the owner is armed, you are risking your life."

Probably not a real good thing.

And then there's Stevie D's suggestion, some years back, of telling the cops that you actually were shooting, or reloading, or whatever. Like the guy who called the cops and was told they were too busy to mess with simple prowlers, they would get there later, and then called back and said he had shot them, and the cops arrived in seconds: They said "Why did you say you shot them?" and he said "Why did you get here so fast after saying you couldn't make it?"

[jimlongley]

Or you could call as an "innocent third party" (preferrably from a phone not traceable directly to you) and say that there was a group around a car and the owner of the car and it looked like there was going to be a riot.