CHL holder killed by police in Las Vegas at a Costco

[baldeagle]

I put this is to stress a point.....isn't it funny how the video is immediately available when needed!!!

http://galvestondailynews.com/story/173378/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yeah, but in this case they're looking for bad guys.......

[seniorshooteress]

I put this is to stress a point.....isn't it funny how the video is immediately available when needed!!!

http://galvestondailynews.com/story/173378/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maybe Wal-Mart has better video equipment than Costco.

[SpringerFan]

I am in for a Houston area protest. Any interested parties feel free to PM me.

[drjoker]

I am in DFW, but I believe seniorshooteress is in Galveston, which is near Houston (I think).

[philip964]

The family now has a website.

http://erikbscott.com/blog/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This goes directly to the father's blog. I would recommend reading the whole history.

John Stossel of Fox News will be covering the inquest.

He had doctor's examine Eric's body, before burial. One of the bullets entered the arm pit, indicating Eric's arms were in the air.

Because of the 911 call made by the 20 year old security guard, fifteen police units, a helicopter, incident command team and ambulance were dispatched to the Costco.

Eric probably did n't have a chance, regardless of what he did.

Seems that Las Vegas murdered the wrong father's son.

[WildBill]

John Stossel of Fox News will be covering the inquest.

I didn't know that this story had reached the national news. I like John Stossel. His coverage should be informative.

[baldeagle]

John Stossel of Fox News will be covering the inquest.

I didn't know that this story had reached the national news. I like John Stossel. His coverage should be informative.

That is interesting. Stossel has done some stories on guns and the RKBA. His coverage should be unimpeded by liberal bias.

[RiverCity.45]

John Stossel of Fox News will be covering the inquest.

I didn't know that this story had reached the national news. I like John Stossel. His coverage should be informative.

That is interesting. Stossel has done some stories on guns and the RKBA. His coverage should be unimpeded by liberal bias.

John Stossel is now a converted supporter of the RKBA. In fact, he acknowledges this on his show "More Guns Less Crime" that aired on Fox Business Channel. Need proof? Watch him make our case for us at " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[WildBill]

John Stossel of Fox News will be covering the inquest.

I didn't know that this story had reached the national news. I like John Stossel. His coverage should be informative.

That is interesting. Stossel has done some stories on guns and the RKBA. His coverage should be unimpeded by liberal bias.

John Stossel is now a converted supporter of the RKBA. In fact, he acknowledges this on his show "More Guns Less Crime" that aired on Fox Business Channel. Need proof? Watch him make our case for us at " onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hope that he has the opportunity to interview Bill Scott.

[seniorshooteress]

Good New Going to be aware of this nationally now for sure.

[C-dub]

Stossel is a libertarian. He doesn't like government control very much at all.

[baldeagle]

This is stunning. Erik was shot at least four times in the back and once in the armpit. The first shot, in the chest with a .45 was fatal. According to his father, he actually spoke calmly to the police, told them he had a CCW and stated, "I am disarming", following their instructions. He pulled up his shirt to show them his weapon, and that's when they shot him.

[Texas Dan Mosby]

...and stated, "I am disarming", following their instructions.

I have three big issues with this tragic incident.

First, the CHL holder opted to stay in the store after being notified about store "policy" by an employee. This does not make sense to me, as it creates a problem that can be easily eliminated by simply leaving the store, and coming back at a later time. It is not clear whether or not he spoke directly with the store manager to clarify the policy, and it would appear to be the case that he did not. Here in Texas, we have the 30.06, and even if a store is not posted, or posted properly, I don't believe that arguing the point on the premises is the best course of action to take for the CHL holder. I believe the argument is best made through legal channels with the appropriate legal representation from both parties. It is quite possible that an issue could be easily resolved through simple written correspondence with management.

Second, the CHL holder by all accounts, motioned toward his firearm with his hand. I would not feel comfortable taking this action with 3 LEO's drawn down on me as I believe the potential to misinterpret movement would be too great a risk. I believe it would be much safer for all involved to simply maintain hands high, and slowly lower to ones knee's and prone out as there would be absolutely no chance of confusing this movement as "reaching for the gun". Even with witnesses around claiming that I "slowly reached to turn his gun over to the cops", in the end, it is still, "reaching for the gun". While some feel that being disarmed is dangerous, I believe the chances of my "safed" firearm discharging while being removed by an LEO are far less likely than being inadvertently shot by an amped up LEO who sees me "reaching for my gun" no matter how slowly I move.

The last big issue I have with this incident involves the tactics employed by the LEO's on the scene. Either the on scene LEO's failed to execute policy pertaining to apprehension, or they executed poor policy imo. Without the video, we will truly never really know. If the CHL holder was indeed calm, cooperative, and did not have a firearm in his hands, than I don't see how he could not have been physically controlled and cuffed by the 3 LEO's at the scene, with 1 to cover and 2 to control. Going "hands on" is part of the job, and a very effective way to swiftly gain control and secure an individual. We did it it in Afghanistan and Iraq, in full kit including armor and rifles, LEO's should be able to do the same with the minimal kit they have. Where were the TASER's? Does the LVMPD not use them? The use of a TASER in this incident could have very well saved this mans' life.

Bottom line: Poor decisions were made on both sides and a man is dead as a result of those poor decisions.

It no longer matters who was right or wrong. No lawsuit or policy change will bring that man back to life. He is gone.

Decision making and course of action development is a crucial skill in life, and as CHL holders, ones decisions may lead to unintended consequences that could prove fatal in the end, right or wrong. Choose wisely, and always go with the course of action that has the lowest chance of resulting in conflict and a potentially deadly encounter. I don't believe the individual in this case did that, and while I sympathize with his family, I believe this man would be alive today if he had simply walked away after the first encounter with the store employee.

Be careful out there...

[seamusTX]

I believe this man would be alive today if he had simply walked away after the first encounter with the store employee.

If that was the way the incident started, you are completely right.

I read an article in a travel magazine years ago where some snotty maitre d' of a restaurant told the father of a young child that they did not like to have children in that restaurant. The father's response was that his daughter had already eaten in better restaurants.

I like that attitude.

However, the late gentleman's fiancée is telling a different story, and there are too many parties involved who have their own butts to protect by, shall we say, elaborating the facts or fibbing.

- Jim

[chartreuse]

I've held off posting in this thread, up until now, largely because I find the events so shocking that I've struggled to find the words...

Bottom line: Poor decisions were made on both sides and a man is dead as a result of those poor decisions.

I think I agree with you on this. Though hindsight is always 20/20, of course.

It no longer matters who was right or wrong. No lawsuit or policy change will bring that man back to life. He is gone.

But I strongly disagree with this point of view. If changes are made that save the life of the next guy, then surely that's a positive thing and a way of bringing some good from a terrible situation.