Beware Fraud at Well Known Gun Auction Site !!!

[drjoker]

Oldgringo, Actually, this event is seen by my wife as the divine hand of God telling us we should not have guns in the house. She's put her foot down because one cannot argue with God. So, I still own zero guns. I buy them as "gifts" for my Dad and he lets me shoot "his" guns. I'm looking for a gun club to join so that I could store everything at the clubhouse.

No, USPS does NOT reimburse money orders that were fraudulently cashed. They only reimburse lost money orders that was lost through the postal system after you pay $5 to see what happened to it and it takes f o r e v e r for them to get you that info. In other words, you have to pay $5 so that they could tell you if it's their fault or not. Wow, now THAT's customer service.

TAM, no, I am not going to drive to the other side of the DFW metroplex to "confront" a guy selling GUNS. Bad idea, man. I like shooting PAPER or metal pie plates, NOT people! "Confronting" an armed man over money is the best way to get your rear rump shot! A situation I'd be keen to avoid.... Besides, they will only see you "by appointment". I called them and tried to pay FTF, but every time slot that I requested to meet was "unavailable". Finally, I asked what was available and they said that they're only available to meet with customers for a couple of hours on Friday afternoons. I should've been suspicious right then and there, but I was STUPID and mailed him the money order instead because I didn't want to be labeled a non-paying bidder.

What are your experiences with that gun auction site? If enough people who have grievances against this website get together, we may be able to start a class action lawsuit and recover some of our losses due to the illegal and unethical business practices of this website!

EDIT for cowboymd: The grounds that I have for suing the website is fraud. The purposeful omission of information as well as the inclusion of false information can both, in certain circumstances be fraudulent. It's more complicated than that and I've probably described it incorrectly but, that's the way I understand it without being a lawyer.

EDIT for G.A. Heath: Sheesh, didn't I just say that it takes "forever" for the Post Office to find out if the money order is cashed or not?

G.A. Heath wrote: It seems to me that you have not even checked to see if the money order was cashed or not.

EDIT for TAM: Yeah, I know, I'm real STUPID for doing this. I told my best friend and she said to not think about it as being cheated but regard this as tuition on the road of life instead. I guess I feel a little better about it....

[tiger1873]

Besides, they will only see you "by appointment". I called them and tried to pay FTF, but every time slot that I requested to meet was "unavailable". Finally, I asked what was available and they said that they're only available to meet with customers for a couple of hours on Friday afternoons. I should've been suspicious right then and there, but I was STUPID and mailed him the money order instead because I didn't want to be labeled a non-paying bidder.!

You really shouldn't have to worry about being labeled a non-paying bidder and getting banned if something doesn't feel right. That is why they should have honest feedback. An honest seller always will respond to you and should be reasonable. In a transaction like a gun a seller should always arrange a FTF if possible. On online sales feedback is only one component the other is contact with the seller. The best solutions is always to try and contact a seller.

Do you have a copy of your money order can you get a copy of it? If he large seller contact him again and scan a copy of the money order especially if it was cashed. If he sells lots of guns does he have anything else you want or the same gun in stock? If he's local and doesn't co-operate go down to the police station or the DA's office of the county he lives in but you may want to remind him that your going to go there before you go down there. If he is not local call up the local one nearest to him. If he has FFL the mere mention of reporting that he stole a check should get his attention. Misunderstanding is one thing but if he offered something sale and cashed a check with no intention of honoring it after you contacted him may mean some charges could be brought against him. It's up to you to prove with the police that it goes beyond a simple misunderstanding. You can also sue him small claims court that is where this belongs not with a lawyer. If he cashed the check you have all the proof you need and wouldn't need a lawyer it would be hard to lose a case like that. It sounds like he is local so this would be a great option.

[cowboymd]

Oldgringo, Actually, this event is seen by my wife as the divine hand of God telling us we should not have guns in the house. She's put her foot down because one cannot argue with God. So, I still own zero guns. I buy them as "gifts" for my Dad and he lets me shoot "his" guns. I'm looking for a gun club to join so that I could store everything at the clubhouse.

No, USPS does NOT reimburse money orders that were fraudulently cashed. They only reimburse lost money orders that was lost through the postal system after you pay $5 to see what happened to it and it takes f o r e v e r for them to get you that info. In other words, you have to pay $5 so that they could tell you if it's their fault or not. Wow, now THAT's customer service.

TAM, no, I am not going to drive to the other side of the DFW metroplex to "confront" a guy selling GUNS. Bad idea, man. I like shooting PAPER or metal pie plates, NOT people! "Confronting" an armed man over money is the best way to get your rear rump shot! A situation I'd be keen to avoid.... Besides, they will only see you "by appointment". I called them and tried to pay FTF, but every time slot that I requested to meet was "unavailable". Finally, I asked what was available and they said that they're only available to meet with customers for a couple of hours on Friday afternoons. I should've been suspicious right then and there, but I was STUPID and mailed him the money order instead because I didn't want to be labeled a non-paying bidder.

What are your experiences with that gun auction site? If enough people who have grievances against this website get together, we may be able to start a class action lawsuit and recover some of our losses due to the illegal and unethical business practices of this website!

OK, I'll play again. Maybe I missed something? On what grounds do you plan on sueing the auction site? The seller ripped you off, not the website.

[The Annoyed Man]

TAM, no, I am not going to drive to the other side of the DFW metroplex to "confront" a guy selling GUNS. Bad idea, man. I like shooting PAPER or metal pie plates, NOT people! "Confronting" an armed man over money is the best way to get your rear rump shot! A situation I'd be keen to avoid.... Besides, they will only see you "by appointment". I called them and tried to pay FTF, but every time slot that I requested to meet was "unavailable". Finally, I asked what was available and they said that they're only available to meet with customers for a couple of hours on Friday afternoons. I should've been suspicious right then and there, but I was STUPID and mailed him the money order instead because I didn't want to be labeled a non-paying bidder.

First of all, you left off where I said "(in a polite and civil way)" so I never did advocate an armed confrontation. That would be idiotic.

Second, you never mentioned that they will see you only by appointment, so my suggestion was made in good faith. The truth is, MOST gun stores don't require an appointment to walk in, so there was no way I could know that this was not a practical possibility for you. If I had a beef with a gun store, I would walk in and ask to speak to the owner/manager, to see if I could get the matter straightened out. That is a reasonable thing to do.

Third, you're right... it was stupid to send them the money. Experience can be a cruel mistress. The upside is that you likely won't make that mistake again.

Lastly, you sound pretty angry, and not just about this incident. Given that, it probably is better that you didn't go over there.

[5thGenTexan]

+1 on the small claims court. A whole lot cheaper than going to grown up court.

[G.A. Heath]

It seems to me that you have not even checked to see if the money order was cashed or not. So who's to say it wasn't lost in the mail? If it was cashed then you have a case of mail fraud (The postal service was used in the commission of the crime) making it a federal offense regardless of who sent, received, or cashed the money order. Once an officer of the federal government starts asking questions you might just get your gun or your money back. I am afraid that your lawsuit may end up being dismissed because you may not have standing to sue the auction site seeing as how you appear to not have used any process to get resolution and have not filed a criminal complaint against the seller (While I am not a lawyer I know someone who went through a similar process against a different auction site).

[surprise_i'm_armed]

drjoker:

G.A. Heath brings up an interesting point.

Whether or not you used a USPS money order, the USPS
Postal Inspectors (I'm not sure of the exact name of the USPS
LEO's) do not tolerate any fraudulent activity which employs the
USPS. The jig is up for many fraudsters when the USPS legal boys
get involved.

IIRC, using the USPS to commit fraud is a federal crime.

This is why when scammers such as the "police funds" solicit
donations, they send an employee of theirs out to collect the
check. Or they request that you send your donation via a private
courier, UPS, or FedEx. The reason they do this is to avoid the
"fraud using the USPS" type of charges.

I don't know if you would have to have a registered letter as proof.

Good luck on getting justice for yourself and others.

IANAL. YMMV.

SIA

[PappaGun]

I had the same experience from a private gunbroker seller and with that website several years ago.
Hopefully it's needless to say, but I'll say it any way. I don't have anything to do with that site any more.
I was ticked off for a long time. Still am in fact. Or I wouldn't be ruminating this again LOL.
The seller cashed my money order, closed his email accounts and disconnected his phone numbers.
I wonder how many $285 money orders he got and cashed besides mine?
I filled out all the required paperwork the GB required and got a fax back saying my buyer protection reimbursement check was in the mail.
That was the last time they ever corresponded with me.
They would not answer any other communications.
I never saw the check.
Stay away from Gunbroker.
Lesson learned.

[Canine]

As a gun collector and firearms enthusiast who has literally purchased hundreds of weapons over the years through GunBroker, I have never experienced the problems described by this poster. Granted, as in any on-line purchase, one has to be smart and carefully screen the seller, consider the most prudent method of payment, and ensure that the article in question is "as described." I've found the GB feedback system to be helpful. Likewise, deal with reputable, repeat sellers who you've communicated with on the phone.

[PappaGun]

As a gun collector and firearms enthusiast who has literally purchased hundreds of weapons over the years through GunBroker, I have never experienced the problems described by this poster. Granted, as in any on-line purchase, one has to be smart and carefully screen the seller, consider the most prudent method of payment, and ensure that the article in question is "as described." I've found the GB feedback system to be helpful. Likewise, deal with reputable, repeat sellers who you've communicated with on the phone.

I am glad it works for you.

But if any one should ever wish to see all correspondence related to my experience, I will gladly provide it.

I repeat, stay away from Gunbroker.com

[SwimFan85]

FTF and cash is the best.