Weekend almost incident

[TheReverend]

Honest law-abiding citizens teaching their children gun safety by shooting BB guns at old soda cans in their backyard should not be against any law.

[karder]

They make these guns in Clear Plastic and others colors, I think that would solve alot of the problems right there.

I am a big fan of BB guns as a fun way to introduce youngsters to the shooting sports, but a too realistic looking toy gun is dangerous for the person holding it, especially when that "person" is actually a kid whose judgment is often not good to begin with. I would agree strongly with making the guns a bright safety orange. That is not as fun for the kids, but if just seems like it would be much safer. Of course, there is no substitute for adult supervision.

[chabouk]

I don't consider myself an "old timer" by any stretch of the imagination. But I'm kind of taken aback by all this talk of idiot parents and stupid kids walking around in camo with realistic looking guns etc. What happened to the "good ol' days?"

It wasn't very long ago, mid 1980s, that I was a youngster walking around in old Army fatigues and camo gear with some rather realistic-looking toy rifles and pistols (and they didn't all have orange tips on them back then - and the ones that did have the orange tips, we could pry them off with dad's pliers). We played out scenarios EXACTLY as you're describing.

Only major difference is we USUALLY did so on our own property, usually in our own backyard, but certainly not in a neighbor's property.

I was with your right up to that last sentence. The difference for me and my generation (I'm 46) is that we usually did so with real guns.

Okay, I have to say there's also another difference: we didn't do that in our teens. We "played Army" in camo while carrying guns when we were ages 8 to 10/11/12 or so. By the time puberty hit, we were past gunpowder, and moved on to girls and gasoline. Playing soldier was for little kids.

I don't like Airsoft. I never let my kids have toy guns (they all had real guns instead).

If I got into the sociology of this trend, I'd say it is a consequence of delayed adulthood, where today's kids are pampered and protected from "life". They're not allowed to do anything really thrilling until they're past the age when they should have already put such things aside. Kids aren't allowed to wander, explore, or encounter anything that might be remotely dangerous, even though those things are a key part of growing up and learning what is okay and what isn't. We learned to drive on dirt roads at 10 or 12, and were itching to get our learner's permits at 14 so we could drive on the pavement. We rode bicycles without helmets and fell down and bumped our noggins, so that when we grew up we appreciated how important it is to wear protective gear. We played on playgrounds that were made of steel, rocks, and concrete, with no rubber padding in sight, and we learned that gravity hurts. We not only talked to strangers, we went door to door selling magazine subscriptions, or pushing a lawnmower and a gas can looking for work. At 16 or 17, if we sweated all day hauling hay and bought some cold beer to cool off, the worst that happened if we were caught, was the deputy forcing us to pour it out on the side of the road. Or maybe he called our parents, which was a fate worse than jail.

Today, puberty hits earlier than ever, but "growing up" is delayed until 21, 25, sometimes until the 30s, if even then. From kindergarten on, kids learn by example that The Rules are arbitrary, capricious, and enforced with "zero tolerance", with absolutely no consideration for what would be right or just. They're taught that self defense is no different than assault, since both parties are punished equally.

And appropriate to the trespassing theme of this thread, they're taught that they're entitled to an equal share of everything, and that it's wrong of you to insist they not play games on your lawn.

I can't believe I've turned into a geezer before hitting 50.

[A-R]

nicely written, chabouk

[grumble]

Wow, I couldn't have said it any better, Chabouk.

As an example, I remember a few years back when my youngest was about 12 - took him and some of his buddies to the local PUBLIC baseball field, in the city park, to take a little infield practice. We weren't there 10 minutes before the LEO's showed up and asked me for our "permit" to use the PUBLIC ball fields. I was given a warning and we were sent on our merry way. Now I'm not blaming the LEO's for enforcing whatever idiotic ordinances the town passed, mind you - it certainly wasn't their fault, and to be honest a "concerned neighbor" near the ball field called them on us. Point is that most ruling bodies have lost ANY bit of common sense at all. It's all "zero tolerance." Makes no sense to me.

I just moved to Texas from New Jersey in December. In NJ, a bb and/or pellet gun (not airsoft) is legally considered a FIREARM and is subject to all firearm purchase and possession laws. You cannot purchase a bb/pellet gun (No, not even the Daisy Red Ryder) unless you have acquired a NJ Firearms ID card from your local PD, which requires a complete background check and sometimes takes 3-6 months to obtain (and you guys thought a Texas CHL was bad!).

Don't even get me started on the NJ laws to purchase a (gasp) handgun.

Thank God I'm back in Texas

[TheReverend]

I don't consider myself an "old timer" by any stretch of the imagination. But I'm kind of taken aback by all this talk of idiot parents and stupid kids walking around in camo with realistic looking guns etc. What happened to the "good ol' days?"

It wasn't very long ago, mid 1980s, that I was a youngster walking around in old Army fatigues and camo gear with some rather realistic-looking toy rifles and pistols (and they didn't all have orange tips on them back then - and the ones that did have the orange tips, we could pry them off with dad's pliers). We played out scenarios EXACTLY as you're describing.

Only major difference is we USUALLY did so on our own property, usually in our own backyard, but certainly not in a neighbor's property.

I was with your right up to that last sentence. The difference for me and my generation (I'm 46) is that we usually did so with real guns.

Okay, I have to say there's also another difference: we didn't do that in our teens. We "played Army" in camo while carrying guns when we were ages 8 to 10/11/12 or so. By the time puberty hit, we were past gunpowder, and moved on to girls and gasoline. Playing soldier was for little kids.

I don't like Airsoft. I never let my kids have toy guns (they all had real guns instead).

If I got into the sociology of this trend, I'd say it is a consequence of delayed adulthood, where today's kids are pampered and protected from "life". They're not allowed to do anything really thrilling until they're past the age when they should have already put such things aside. Kids aren't allowed to wander, explore, or encounter anything that might be remotely dangerous, even though those things are a key part of growing up and learning what is okay and what isn't. We learned to drive on dirt roads at 10 or 12, and were itching to get our learner's permits at 14 so we could drive on the pavement. We rode bicycles without helmets and fell down and bumped our noggins, so that when we grew up we appreciated how important it is to wear protective gear. We played on playgrounds that were made of steel, rocks, and concrete, with no rubber padding in sight, and we learned that gravity hurts. We not only talked to strangers, we went door to door selling magazine subscriptions, or pushing a lawnmower and a gas can looking for work. At 16 or 17, if we sweated all day hauling hay and bought some cold beer to cool off, the worst that happened if we were caught, was the deputy forcing us to pour it out on the side of the road. Or maybe he called our parents, which was a fate worse than jail.

Today, puberty hits earlier than ever, but "growing up" is delayed until 21, 25, sometimes until the 30s, if even then. From kindergarten on, kids learn by example that The Rules are arbitrary, capricious, and enforced with "zero tolerance", with absolutely no consideration for what would be right or just. They're taught that self defense is no different than assault, since both parties are punished equally.

And appropriate to the trespassing theme of this thread, they're taught that they're entitled to an equal share of everything, and that it's wrong of you to insist they not play games on your lawn.

I can't believe I've turned into a geezer before hitting 50.

well...
I can't say I agree 100% with you. I agree that the kids today are maturing ALOT later then we did and it's not "normal".
But regarding the rest of your comments, the word was different when we grew up (and I grew up a good 15 years after you) we didn't have the internet, the sexual predators and the worry that your kid will get snatched out of your own back yard.
I remember that most of my childhood I was out with friends from the time we got back from school till dark (and then some). How many of you guys that live in the city/suburbs let their kids stay till dark alone outside?

Law enforcement change a lot over the years the main problem, as you mentioned, is that most of the legislators/enforcers can tell the difference between important and not important and they enforce all the rules with "zero tolerance" and keep adding more and more stupid rules. I think it's all because of the fact that law suits became the American dream and the national hobby. The public ballpark permit probably came after someone sued the city for falling down or something.

[marksiwel]

I don't consider myself an "old timer" by any stretch of the imagination. But I'm kind of taken aback by all this talk of idiot parents and stupid kids walking around in camo with realistic looking guns etc. What happened to the "good ol' days?"

It wasn't very long ago, mid 1980s, that I was a youngster walking around in old Army fatigues and camo gear with some rather realistic-looking toy rifles and pistols (and they didn't all have orange tips on them back then - and the ones that did have the orange tips, we could pry them off with dad's pliers). We played out scenarios EXACTLY as you're describing.

Only major difference is we USUALLY did so on our own property, usually in our own backyard, but certainly not in a neighbor's property.

I was with your right up to that last sentence. The difference for me and my generation (I'm 46) is that we usually did so with real guns.

Okay, I have to say there's also another difference: we didn't do that in our teens. We "played Army" in camo while carrying guns when we were ages 8 to 10/11/12 or so. By the time puberty hit, we were past gunpowder, and moved on to girls and gasoline. Playing soldier was for little kids.

I don't like Airsoft. I never let my kids have toy guns (they all had real guns instead).

If I got into the sociology of this trend, I'd say it is a consequence of delayed adulthood, where today's kids are pampered and protected from "life". They're not allowed to do anything really thrilling until they're past the age when they should have already put such things aside. Kids aren't allowed to wander, explore, or encounter anything that might be remotely dangerous, even though those things are a key part of growing up and learning what is okay and what isn't. We learned to drive on dirt roads at 10 or 12, and were itching to get our learner's permits at 14 so we could drive on the pavement. We rode bicycles without helmets and fell down and bumped our noggins, so that when we grew up we appreciated how important it is to wear protective gear. We played on playgrounds that were made of steel, rocks, and concrete, with no rubber padding in sight, and we learned that gravity hurts. We not only talked to strangers, we went door to door selling magazine subscriptions, or pushing a lawnmower and a gas can looking for work. At 16 or 17, if we sweated all day hauling hay and bought some cold beer to cool off, the worst that happened if we were caught, was the deputy forcing us to pour it out on the side of the road. Or maybe he called our parents, which was a fate worse than jail.

Today, puberty hits earlier than ever, but "growing up" is delayed until 21, 25, sometimes until the 30s, if even then. From kindergarten on, kids learn by example that The Rules are arbitrary, capricious, and enforced with "zero tolerance", with absolutely no consideration for what would be right or just. They're taught that self defense is no different than assault, since both parties are punished equally.

And appropriate to the trespassing theme of this thread, they're taught that they're entitled to an equal share of everything, and that it's wrong of you to insist they not play games on your lawn.

I can't believe I've turned into a geezer before hitting 50.

well...
I can't say I agree 100% with you. I agree that the kids today are maturing ALOT later then we did and it's not "normal".
But regarding the rest of your comments, the word was different when we grew up (and I grew up a good 15 years after you) we didn't have the internet, the sexual predators and the worry that your kid will get snatched out of your own back yard.
I remember that most of my childhood I was out with friends from the time we got back from school till dark (and then some). How many of you guys that live in the city/suburbs let their kids stay till dark alone outside?

Law enforcement change a lot over the years the main problem, as you mentioned, is that most of the legislators/enforcers can tell the difference between important and not important and they enforce all the rules with "zero tolerance" and keep adding more and more stupid rules. I think it's all because of the fact that law suits became the American dream and the national hobby. The public ballpark permit probably came after someone sued the city for falling down or something.

You did have Sexual Predators you just didnt KNOW about it, the Police up until 10-20 years ago *depending on state/county/city* were Very unprepared for sexual assualt/rape cases. Rape laws in alot of states are still barbaric and years behind the times.

[A-R]

With all this talk of safe vs unsafe toy guns, look what popped up on my news update from TheOnion.com (caution: if you're not familiar with The Onion, beware it uses extremely sarcastic, cynical, and often crass humor - in the tradition of classic satire).

http://www.theonion.com/content/news/fu ... e_of_three" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[JJVP]

I don't consider myself an "old timer" by any stretch of the imagination. But I'm kind of taken aback by all this talk of idiot parents and stupid kids walking around in camo with realistic looking guns etc. What happened to the "good ol' days?"

It wasn't very long ago, mid 1980s, that I was a youngster walking around in old Army fatigues and camo gear with some rather realistic-looking toy rifles and pistols (and they didn't all have orange tips on them back then - and the ones that did have the orange tips, we could pry them off with dad's pliers). We played out scenarios EXACTLY as you're describing.

Only major difference is we USUALLY did so on our own property, usually in our own backyard, but certainly not in a neighbor's property.

I was with your right up to that last sentence. The difference for me and my generation (I'm 46) is that we usually did so with real guns.

Okay, I have to say there's also another difference: we didn't do that in our teens. We "played Army" in camo while carrying guns when we were ages 8 to 10/11/12 or so. By the time puberty hit, we were past gunpowder, and moved on to girls and gasoline. Playing soldier was for little kids.

I don't like Airsoft. I never let my kids have toy guns (they all had real guns instead).

If I got into the sociology of this trend, I'd say it is a consequence of delayed adulthood, where today's kids are pampered and protected from "life". They're not allowed to do anything really thrilling until they're past the age when they should have already put such things aside. Kids aren't allowed to wander, explore, or encounter anything that might be remotely dangerous, even though those things are a key part of growing up and learning what is okay and what isn't. We learned to drive on dirt roads at 10 or 12, and were itching to get our learner's permits at 14 so we could drive on the pavement. We rode bicycles without helmets and fell down and bumped our noggins, so that when we grew up we appreciated how important it is to wear protective gear. We played on playgrounds that were made of steel, rocks, and concrete, with no rubber padding in sight, and we learned that gravity hurts. We not only talked to strangers, we went door to door selling magazine subscriptions, or pushing a lawnmower and a gas can looking for work. At 16 or 17, if we sweated all day hauling hay and bought some cold beer to cool off, the worst that happened if we were caught, was the deputy forcing us to pour it out on the side of the road. Or maybe he called our parents, which was a fate worse than jail.

Today, puberty hits earlier than ever, but "growing up" is delayed until 21, 25, sometimes until the 30s, if even then. From kindergarten on, kids learn by example that The Rules are arbitrary, capricious, and enforced with "zero tolerance", with absolutely no consideration for what would be right or just. They're taught that self defense is no different than assault, since both parties are punished equally.

And appropriate to the trespassing theme of this thread, they're taught that they're entitled to an equal share of everything, and that it's wrong of you to insist they not play games on your lawn.

I can't believe I've turned into a geezer before hitting 50.

[MadMonkey]

Those orange tips are only required for shipping; the vast majority of us paint over them once we receive the guns. But, we're never playing on the street, we have dedicated fields. Airsoft/MilSim is evolving pretty quickly from the old "spring guns in the backyard" to platoon/company size operations with 100-300 people. Sadly, if we don't let enough kids know about ORGANIZED events, things like this will continue to happen and we'll end up losing our rights to own/use these guns which are amazing training and practice tools.

If you happen to speak to any of the kids involved in these instances PLEASE let them know about organizations like Texas Airsoft (TASO) and North Texas Airsot (NTA)

http://www.northtexasairsoft.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.texasairsoft.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[92f-fan]

About 35 years ago I was "interviewed" by the local police for having a gun.

I was in my parents back yard which led to 1000 acres of woods. My buddies and I were playing war as we called it. We were about 10 years old. The guns we were using were sticks we picked up off the ground. A neighbor called the police to report kids running around with guns.

The point of the story is that these kinds of issues have been going on for years ...

Thankfully everyone then and now had the required restraint to avoid a bad result

[surprise_i'm_armed]

chabouk said: I can't believe I've turned into a geezer before hitting 50.

Hey, gramps, your left turn signal's been on for a mile,
and I'm afraid to pass you!!

SIA

[Bayllor]

In the "'70's," we played in the yard with cap guns and BB guns. Our yard, not our neighbor's yard. Since then, there have been far too many school and drive-by shoots that weren't the norm in that decade. Times have changed and people's perception of what kids are doing with guns had changed too. Seems kids can get their hands on guns fairly easy, so why not err on the side of caution when you see a kid outside your window with a realistic looking AR airgun. Might scare the pants off me, too!

[RPB]

About 35 years ago I was "interviewed" by the local police for having a gun.

I was in my parents back yard which led to 1000 acres of woods. My buddies and I were playing war as we called it. We were about 10 years old. The guns we were using were sticks we picked up off the ground. A neighbor called the police to report kids running around with guns.

The point of the story is that these kinds of issues have been going on for years ...

Thankfully everyone then and now had the required restraint to avoid a bad result

Me too, similar situation, I was about 15 years old, and I actually had to explain aboout this when applying for a CHL, My situation was "picked up and taken to the police station and released to parents" when carrying a Daisy BB Pistol that looked like a 1911, with a freind carrying a BB rifle, in an open field by the railroad tracks, while we were shooting frogs for his mom to cook froglegs..... didn't even require a frog hunting license ... and the crawdads from the didtch required no fishing license, and the BB guns were legal. Still, the DPS wanted County/District Clerk record checks that there were no carrying weapons charges from 40 years ago on me.

[joe817]

I was in my parents back yard which led to 1000 acres of woods. My buddies and I were playing war as we called it. We were about 10 years old. The guns we were using were sticks we picked up off the ground. A neighbor called the police to report kids running around with guns.

The point of the story is that these kinds of issues have been going on for years ...Thankfully everyone then and now had the required restraint to avoid a bad result

I had similar experiences growing up. In my growing up days, we had the neighborhood gang(as in Spanky & our gang...NOT the gang we associate with the term today): big Ricky,little Ricky,Jerry,Ed,Ted,Bill,Mike,Bill, and myself.

We alternated between playing army guys, cops & robbers, and cowboys. Naturally all 3 games involved guns. But we used real guns. All of the other guys used their dads WWII & Korean War bring back guns.

I had a puny little Belgium Bulldog.
Big Rickey used his dad's Luger
Jerry used his dad's type 14 Nambu
Little Rickey used his dad's type 38 Arisaka
Bill was the envy of the group as he used his dad's 1911A1
Mike used his dad's Mauser rifle.
I forget what the other guys had. So long ago.

Back then was a totally different time. No drugs, street gangs, common violence we see today, etc, etc,etc.

There was never any worry about shooting the guns because no dad had ammo for the bring backs. And we weren't foolish enough to try to find ammo for them. We knew we had a good thing going, & didn't want to spoil it.

My little puny gun? They hadn't made ammo for it in 50 years. It's caliber was .320 CF. Here's a pic:
http://www.la-belle-epoque.net/english/e_arm_0012.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Like I say, a different time...a different world. Thanks for the memories 92f-fan !
P.S. the time frame was 1953-1958.