Missed 51% sign

[74novaman]

I hesitated to write this, but hope others will learn from my poor example. Was picking up gift certificates for a friend at a bowling/entertainment center which has putt putt, games, bowling, laser tag. As I walk towards the door, a class of kids is coming out, so I take the door that is normally the exit. Walk in, do my business, and walk back out 3 min later.

As I walk out, I see a 51% sign posted at the BOTTOM of the glass next to the entrance door I didn't use because of the kids class exiting. My heart stops, but I just glance at the sign, then walk back to my car and thank God for the fact I didn't encounter a problem in the place, instead of making people suspicious by just standing outside staring at the 51% sign in disbelief.

I have my doubts its a true 51%. Surely they don't sell more booze then all the other kid entertainments they provide. Either way, not an experience I want to repeat.

Lesson learned: ALWAYS look for signs prohibiting carry, even in places you don't think could possibly be 51% establishments.

[papabear]

Probably wasnt really 51% place.

[74novaman]

Probably wasnt really 51% place.

Is there any way to confirm if it was a properly posted 51% or not?

[KFP]

I'd look into this further if this had happened to me. Like you, I would be shocked if they were in fact a 51% establishment and would contact TABC.

If they truly don't want people carrying they can post the correct signage without adding any confusion. My guess is that TABC will inform them that they are not able to post the 51% either way.

The TABC website is confusing, but you can kind of look it up. If it lists their license as an FB (food and beverage) they probably are not 51%.

[74novaman]

Looked it up on TABC...their license starts with MB, not FB. Is that the FB you're referring to?

[CWOOD]

Looked it up on TABC...their license starts with MB, not FB. Is that the FB you're referring to?

MB means Mixed Beverage. In this case one cannot tell if it is true 51% by looking at the TABC site.

Next time you are in the area, you can go to the bar area and look at the acutual license which is supposed to be on display to the public. Near the center of the license you will see the words SIGN = BLUE
or SIGN = RED

SIGN = BLUE means that the place IS NOT a 51% location. Legal for CHL to carry.

SIGN = RED means that the place IS a 51% location. Not legal for a CHL to carry.

Be aware that sometimes in a bowling alley situation, the legal premisis for the bar may include all of the public area inside the building. Otherwise, the patrons could not legally carry their alcoholic drinks back to their lanes/tables.

Hope this helps.

[TrueFlog]

It's actually not uncommon for these types of places to be posted 51%. The rationale is that the bar area may be considered a separate business, so it's not far-fetched to think that the bar may be a 51% establishment. Since alcohol must be consumed on the premises it was sold, these venues typically arrange for the entire entertainment center to be considered part of the bar's premises. The upside is that this allows patrons to take their beer back to the bowling lane rather than having to drink it at the counter. The downside is that the entire center becomes off-limits to CHL's. This sort of thing has been a topic of discussion in other threads, and there may be others who can shed more light on it.

The OP makes a good point though. It's up to the owner to make the sign conspicuous, and it's on us to keep our eyes open. Even if you "know" it's not a 51%'er, you still have to watch out for 30.06's at any location.

[dicion]

Looked it up on TABC...their license starts with MB, not FB. Is that the FB you're referring to?

MB Licenses can have sub-certificates. If you looked it up on the TABC Website, look in the bottom left corner for other certificates on that same license.
If there is a "FB" in that list, they also have a Food & Beverage Cert, which means they are not 51%.

Lack of FB does not mean that they are 51%, just that they dont have that cert.

As CWOOD said, only sure way is to look at their license.

[74novaman]

The only subordinates on their license are LB,PE. Maybe this is one where they whole area is defined as a "bar" so they can take drinks to lanes. Just doesn't make sense to me since it advertises it self as a "family friendly" place, with lots of stuff other then their rather small sports bar.

[74novaman]

The OP makes a good point though. It's up to the owner to make the sign conspicuous, and it's on us to keep our eyes open. Even if you "know" it's not a 51%'er, you still have to watch out for 30.06's at any location.

Thank you. That was what I was hoping others would take away from this story. I was looking all day as I did my business, as I normally do. Just went in an exit as an entrance, and the 51% sign is posted at the BOTTOM of the glass next to the main entrance door. Even if I glanced over there, and I think I did, the sign was blocked by all the munchkins coming out of the door. If it had been posted higher, I might not have missed it.

[longtooth]

Steve should get in on this one before the night is over.
Late 90s Woodland Heights Hospital here in Lufkin actually had a 51% sign on the ER entrance. I every time I went in that door.
It stayed up for a long time. When they took it down they replaced it w/ a ghost buster. The I really ed.

[C-dub]

Maybe I'm missing something here. If there were any kids or a bunch of kids in this place could it be a legitimate 51% place?

I was picking up a to go order at a restaurant once and upon entering was told all to go orders were handled at the bar. Umm, okay. I'm carrying and the only sign regardign weapons in the whole place is the standard "unlicensed possession" sign. I go over and pick up my order and am scanning for a 51% sign, but to no avail. Was I okay? I think so.

[74novaman]

Maybe I'm missing something here. If there were any kids or a bunch of kids in this place could it be a legitimate 51% place?

That's what I"m wondering too. It advertises itself as a place for family fun in some commercials.

Its primarily a bowling alley. They also have putt putt, laser tag, game room, and a small sports bar. I just don't see that little bar generating 51% of that places income.

[thorkyl]

From TABC - http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/publication ... ailers.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

MIXED BEVERAGE PERMIT (MB)
Permit authorizes the holder to sell mixed drinks from unsealed containers and wine, beer, ale and malt liquor in containers of any legal size for on-premises consumption.

FOOD AND BEVERAGE CERTIFICATE (FB)
A Food and Beverage Certificate may be issued to the holder of a Beer Retailer’s On-Premise Permit or Wine and Beer Retailer’s Permit if food service is the primary business being operated on the licensed premises or to the holder of a Mixed Beverage Permit or Private Club Permit if food service is available on the premises and the gross receipts of alcoholic beverages do not exceed 50 percent of total gross receipts.
The holder must meet requirements of the Code and Rule 33.5 concerning minimum number of entrees served, hours of service, etc. Certificate allows holder to be exempt from posting a conduct surety bond.

They are less than 51% if they have a MB,FB

I would suspect that they have a bad posting.

I also remember reading somewhere in the statutes that if its 51% minors are not allowed entry, still looking for it.
Found it, I was mistaken

From - http://www.tabc.state.tx.us/faq/general.asp#age" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
May a minor enter the premises where a license or permit is issued?
Generally yes, if he does not possess or consume an alcoholic beverage. A minor may not enter the premises of a package store unless accompanied by an adult parent, spouse or guardian. A licensee or permittee may have a “house rule” that minors may not enter their licensed premises.

[roberts]

That would be a good law to make it illegal for children to enter a 51% premises. Many other states that prohibit carrying in bars also prohibit children in bars for similar reasons.