Press check leads to (almost) empty gun!

[GlockenHammer]

Quite some time ago I caught an empty chamber with a press check (old thread here). Ironically, it was a press check that also caused the problem then.

Well, tonight I had another press check problem. It seems my last time at the range I fired off the first few rounds from my carry mag since those rounds had been cycled in and out many times. I didn't replace those rounds right away. Tonight when I got her out of the safe and did the press check and mag check, I noticed the mag was not full. Knowing I had a few loose rounds about 20 feet away, I saved the mag, holstered the gun and continued getting dressed for the evening.

A few minutes later I stop to pick up Grandma. When getting back into the truck, I noticed my pocket had a lot of weight in it. Sticking my hand in to find out what all I had in there, I pulled out a G23 mag 2/3 full of hollow points. Sure enough, I only had ONE ROUND in the pistol. (Good thing it wasn't a Smith & Wesson! ) I quickly snapped the mag in and counted my blessings that I didn't need my gun before then!

I guess that's not bad odds--I seem to screw up one press check out of every 1,000.

[ELB]

I would recommend that when you are executing any administrative procedure with your gun, you focus on that procedure, and only that procedure, until you are completely finished and the gun is either holstered or secured.

I have boo-booed a couple times when I distracted myself somehow --once I failed to holster my gun and left it in the drawer when I interrupted the morning dressing-and-arming-up routine for something trivial (caught it before I left the house, tho!). People occasionally land planes gear-up (or worse) because distraction caused them to fail to complete a procedure. I would wager a fair number of NDs happen for the same reason.

Focus, focus.

Best wishes,

elb

[BrassMonkey]

This is what happens when you do not keep a sterile cockpit during critical phases of flight. This is base to short final, but the gear should have been down well before this point in the pattern. It's why we use a checklist even though we have gone thru a procedure thousands of times. Nobody is perfect...

[Lucky45]

My routine is to eject the mag and chambered round, then change to back up mag and pull slide, thus chambering a new round. That way I never forget because I keep a habit of changing magazines.

[GlockenHammer]

way I never forget because I keep a habit of changing magazines.

But that's kind of the thing with habits. Since you don't have to think about them, when something interrupts you, you don't always think about going back and completing the operation.

[NcongruNt]

My routine is to eject the mag and chambered round, then change to back up mag and pull slide, thus chambering a new round. That way I never forget because I keep a habit of changing magazines.

I been doing something similar. I pull the mag and eject the chambered round and slide lock it and make sure it's clear. My primary mag is a 14-rounder, and the backup mag carries 13 rounds, so like to keep the primary in so I have 15 rounds in the gun whenever I carry. I do plan on getting some 15-round Mec-Gar mags in the near future that would eliminate the difference between mags and simplify the process to something similar to Lucky45's procedure. What I've been doing is putting the primary mag back in, chambering a round, putting the safety on, pulling the mag and setting the gun down on a safe surface pointed in a safe direction, then reloading the ejected round into the mag and re-inserting the mag and holstering.

After getting some useful instruction on safe handling and reloading this past weekend at Forum Day, I am considering changing my routine a bit. Instead of setting the gun down after chambering the first round and ejecting the mag, it seems more prudent to holster immediately after chambering and then pulling the mag from a holstered position and reloading the top round from there, then re-inserting it while still holstered. This limits handling a little more.

The only drawback I see to this is that this would only work when using a holster, and would not be the same as when checking from a bedside position or something similar. It also wouldn't work as well when in a vehicle after returning from somewhere I couldn't carry. I'm also not sure if it would be wise to have 2 different routines.

Any suggestions or modifications?

[Jeremae]

Ok I'm a little confused but will give my advice anyway...

A press check is done to insure there is a round in the chamber, the round should not be ejected. It is good practice to include a magazine check at the same time (after putting slide back into battery and safeing pistol) by dropping the magazine and checking that it is full etc and then reseating it properly.

ReLoading a cleared gun is where topping off the mag comes into play.

if you can easily and safely reholster your gun with one hand, these steps allow you to minimize danger during reload.

While pointing gun in safe direction and keeping finger out of trigger guard

1. Insert full magazine into magwell and cycle action to strip off first round.
2. Engage safety (if gun equipped)
3. Drop magazine into support hand.
4. Holster gun
5. Add round to magazine
6. Insert magazine into holstered gun making sure to properly seat it.

NcN I think you may be thinking about the IDPA safety speach

[Lumberjack98]

Buy a pistol with a loaded chamber indicator...say like an XD. Problem solved.

[Kalrog]

Buy a pistol with a loaded chamber indicator...say like an XD. Problem solved.

Until that fails. Anything mechanical can fail. So can anything human.

[Mithras61]

Buy a pistol with a loaded chamber indicator...say like an XD. Problem solved.

Until the LCI breaks/breaks off...

In the stress test I read about, the stricker indicator & LCI broke off somewhere between 10,000 and 12,000 (out of about 17,000) rounds. I like the reliability, but wouldn't bet my life on the LCI.

[Lumberjack98]

Proper maintenance of the LCI, as any machine parts, will help mitigate the issue of breakage.

[NcongruNt]

Ok I'm a little confused but will give my advice anyway...

A press check is done to insure there is a round in the chamber, the round should not be ejected. It is good practice to include a magazine check at the same time (after putting slide back into battery and safeing pistol) by dropping the magazine and checking that it is full etc and then reseating it properly.

ReLoading a cleared gun is where topping off the mag comes into play.

if you can easily and safely reholster your gun with one hand, these steps allow you to minimize danger during reload.

While pointing gun in safe direction and keeping finger out of trigger guard

1. Insert full magazine into magwell and cycle action to strip off first round.
2. Engage safety (if gun equipped)
3. Drop magazine into support hand.
4. Holster gun
5. Add round to magazine
6. Insert magazine into holstered gun making sure to properly seat it.

NcN I think you may be thinking about the IDPA safety speach

Actually, it was Draw, Move, and Shoot. Your described procedure is essentially what I was describing, with pulling the mag moved up to before holstering, which is easier anyway.

Gun is always pointed in a safe direction, and finger is never on the trigger unless I'm shooting something or have a verified clear and am doing dry-fire practice.

[austin]

IMHO you are messing with your pistols too much.

I remove my full carry mag and then eject my carry round. These go somewhere.

I then do my shooting.

When I am done, the pistol is put back its carry state and I reholster it.

[stevie_d_64]

This is what happens when you do not keep a sterile cockpit during critical phases of flight. This is base to short final, but the gear should have been down well before this point in the pattern. It's why we use a checklist even though we have gone thru a procedure thousands of times. Nobody is perfect...

The big clue being...

"Whats that beeping noise Charles???"



I'm only picking on Charles because I know hes a good pilot, and any landing you can walk away from is a good one...

(snicker)

[KBCraig]

This is what happens when you do not keep a sterile cockpit during critical phases of flight. This is base to short final, but the gear should have been down well before this point in the pattern. It's why we use a checklist even though we have gone thru a procedure thousands of times. Nobody is perfect...

Here's another gear-up from today's paper:
Plane crashes at local airport; no injuries reported
Published: 10/08/2007
The Texarkana, Ark., Fire Department responded to a small airplane crash Sunday afternoon on Runway 4 at Texarkana Regional Airport.

The pilot, alone in the Cesna 310, was practicing touch and go exercises when he allegedly forgot to put the landing gear down, TAFD Lt. Jerry Anderson said.

He was not injured in the accident. The plane experienced significant damage to its propellors and engines, Anderson said.