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There was mention in the other thread about .22LR of the 5.7x28 round.

If there has ever been such a wide divergence of opinion about anything in shooting, I can't remember what it would be.

I was particularly struck by the comment that Maj. Hassan had used that round, all those struck center mass died, while those with wounds to extremities survived, due to the high velocity of the round.

Some whose views and experience are unassailable think it is underperforming, a solution for which there is no known problem, while others equally experienced think these are a very beneficial alternative, good ballistics, etc.

I looked for a Box o' Truth rundown, but did not find one, only bitter arguments on several gun forums, pro and con.

I thought I'd read that it is under performing because us mere civilians cannot get the full powered ammo for it.

I've killed several critters with that cartridge. Nasty round. Not very much recoil even in the lightweight FN Five Seven. Very loud though. I would hate to fire it indoors without ear protection.

My CHL instructor purchased & carried one for it's ability to penetrate a bullet resistant vest. We were having quite a few murders in Juarez back in 09.

C-dub wrote:I thought I'd read that it is under performing because us mere civilians cannot get the full powered ammo for it.

Sure you can, just not from FN. I forget their name, but at least one other company makes "full fat" 5.7x28 ammo.

Looking at the velocities I could find quickly, 5.7 is nearly identical to 22 magnum in weight and velocity. I imagine the bullets are a bit better and the cartridges are not rimmed and designed to feed in a semi-auto.

IMO, I wouldn't mind getting the FN rifle that shoots that ammo. Very high mag capacity. I doubt I would purposefully hunt anything big with it, but as a lightweight plinker to shoot small game and varmints, it might be a better choice than some of the 22 magnum semi-auto options.

As far as the pistol, I would rather have something that makes a bigger hole and there are 9mm handguns out there with nearly the same capacity as the FN pistol.

Having fired the Five Seven pistol, I can say that it has minimum recoil, super light pistol, and 20 +1 capacity.
It is very easy to put rounds on target, but the fireball and sound are exceptional. Ha!

Now, if you had the PS90 rifle, you have a 50 ROUND magazine on that bad boy.

Expense of the ammo precludes me from adding either to my collection.

Mr Allen,

Keep in mind that the 5.7 round was developed in response to the order for a "Personal Defense Weapon" (PDW) Specs from NATO to replace the 9mm, with the round being a pistol and rifle-fired requirement, capable of penetrating body armor,

FN Herstal crushed it with the 5.7 in tests against the H&K 4.6 round.

So FNH developed the cartridge, then the rifle, then the pistol.

Used by over 40 Countries, and 200 LE Agencies in the US, specifically the Secret Service and DHS Protective services.
Whenever you see the Presidents Detail, they are carrying the P90 (full Auto) under their jackets.
I don't think that the SS (and the German Protection Team for Chancellor Merkel!) would use a 'crappy round' for their jobs...

And also used by Stargate SG-1 Teams along with BattleStar Galactica Viper Pilots!

The Five Seven handgun is hard to find at my distros so there is either a high demand or FN does not make many. In six years selling firearms I have only been able to find one new Five Seven. If I would not have promised it to my neighbor I would have kept it for a carry gun since I like the high capacity and low recoil. My neighbor also purchased the PS90 and Ioves both of them.
I looked into the same things you have and decided it would be sufficient for my needs. I change carry guns pretty frequently so chances are it would not be a permanent carry gun anyway.

I believe up here in DFW Carrollton PD issues both the pistol and the carbine to its officers, and I believe Addison PD issues it also, and they seem to be very happy with it. I do not know if they have had any officer involved shootings with it, but they seem to like it.

I do not know what ammo they issue, but having a 20+1 handgun and a 50+1 carbine issued to you can't be all bad.

I personally don't own one due to the difficulty in handloading the cartridge, to the point that in the 49th Lyman Manual it states things like some full length sizers won't size the case all they way even when touching and camming down on the shellholder.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

It is amazing to see how worked up folks get about this round. Most everyone seems to agree that the fiveseven pistol and the PS90 are well built firearms, but debating the ballistics of the 5.7X28 round seems to bring out an ugly side in folks.

Disclaimer, I am not an expert in ballistics, or much of anything really, but I have shot the caliber a lot and have done my own testing. Everything here is pure opinion, but those of you interested in this platform, might find some of it useful.

For the 5.7X28mm to function at its intended level, it needs a lot of velocity. The bullet needs to be pushed past 2000fps to achieve the penetration, yawing, and wound channel necessary to do its job. Almost all commercially manufactured ammunition (I'm not sure about American Eagle), will meet this standard when fired from the PS90, but through the shorter barrel of the fiveseven pistol, it can be a tougher proposition.

From what I have read, the 5.7X28 caliber was designed to be a NATO replacement for 9mm and met all the technical standards but for political reasons, the caliber was never formally adopted. It was designed to be fired in full automatic mode from the PS90 and the pistol was to act as a companion to the PS90, but the round was optimized for the the PS90 as a very controllable round fired from an SBR in full auto mode. It is the FiveseveN pistol which has the most controversy, as the shorter barrel makes it tough to achieve the hyper-velocity necessary to make the platform function as intended.

FN limits sale of the SS190AP round to law enforcement. This round has a steel penetrator core. Honestly, in my humble opinion, it is not a terribly impressive round. 31 grain bullet at around 2100 FPS. It will get the job done, certainly, but is not the mythical magic bullet politicians have made it out to be. It can be purchased fairly easily, although it is quite expensive. In my opinion, it is silly that it is prohibited and I would not buy it if it was legal to carry as there are better options.

The round most of us are familiar with is the FN sporting round, SS197SR with the blue tip. I think this is the round Maj. Hassan was using but I am not certain. This is a good target round and functions great, but only pushes a 40 grain bullet at 1650 FPS or so. Not nearly fast enough. This is where folks start arguing the .22 magnum theory.

The key is to get ammo that is hot enough to create the necessary wound cavity and to get adequate penetration. I am fond of the T6B round or the SM4 round manufactured by Elite Ammunition. These rounds are pushing a 28 grain bullet at around 2600FPS from the FiveseveN pistol. Now you're in business. The difference of nearly 1000FPS between the SS197SR and the TB6 takes the 5.7x28 from a glorified .22 magnum to a serious caliber, able to hold its own with the big boys. I have shot some pork shoulders wrapped in denim to get an idea of what it might do in the real world, and while my testing is far from scientific, I was impressed enough to carry one regularly.

As I have said before, it is not for everyone, but to me it is an interesting option. Flat shooting, very accurate and minimal recoil lets me fire fast and stay on target.

I had not seen it going 2600 fps. That is some serious velocity. I saw some Federal ammo for sale that was advertised at around 1650 fps which I thought was slow. I can't see myself affording a PS90, but it sounds like a pretty effective and high capacity small caliber rifle.

MechAg94 wrote:I had not seen it going 2600 fps. That is some serious velocity. I saw some Federal ammo for sale that was advertised at around 1650 fps which I thought was slow. I can't see myself affording a PS90, but it sounds like a pretty effective and high capacity small caliber rifle.

I am going strictly from memory, but the 2600FPS for the SM4 is through the pistol. I think Elite Ammo advertises that the SM4 in the PS90 clocks around 3350fps. American Eagle and the SS197SR are held down to a pretty low velocity. Good rounds for target practice or small game, but they don't do the platform justice.

Dave2 wrote:

C-dub wrote:I thought I'd read that it is under performing because us mere civilians cannot get the full powered ammo for it.

Sure you can, just not from FN. I forget their name, but at least one other company makes "full fat" 5.7x28 ammo.

It's Elite Ammunition. They hand load for the 5.7. I've also seen a few online retailers sell the slightly higher loaded "military & LE only" load, but it's just the higher powered load, *NOT* the AP load.

I got a Five-Seven for my wife as she has nerve damage in her wrist and therefore is very recoil sensitive. She was carrying a .380, but I wanted her to have something with more of a punch to it, especially with people wearing thick jackets in the winter.

The 5.7 recoil is nothing, it's like a .22LR. You could literally one-hand the gun easily, and it's a really sweet shooter. I'm seriously thinking of getting me one as a truck gun just for the high ammo count.

As somebody said earlier, none of my distributers ever have it in stock, or if they do, they're all promised to somebody else. So they seem to be reserved for the higher end guys. There's one gun on Gunbroker in particular that seems to have a never ending supply of them!