TexasCHLforum.com

I've been searching this forum and other forums for hours trying to understand what a straw purchase is. Most of the comments I've read lead me to believe that it only applies to purchasing a firearm from an FFL with the intent of giving the firearm to someone else. This act would mean you knowingly lied on the 4473 form. Let's throw a private sale into the mix. Let's say a good friend of mine has an uncle that wants to buy a firearm that I am selling. The uncle is a Texas resident that does not live close to me, but he has agreed to give his nephew cash to purchase the firearm. My friend and his uncle are all Texas residents and they can both legally purchase and possess firearms. What does everyone think?

Austin83 wrote:I've been searching this forum and other forums for hours trying to understand what a straw purchase is. Most of the comments I've read lead me to believe that it only applies to purchasing a firearm from an FFL with the intent of giving the firearm to someone else. This act would mean you knowingly lied on the 4473 form. Let's throw a private sale into the mix. Let's say a good friend of mine has an uncle that wants to buy a firearm that I am selling. The uncle is a Texas resident that does not live close to me, but he has agreed to give his nephew cash to purchase the firearm. My friend and his uncle are all Texas residents and they can both legally purchase and possess firearms. What does everyone think?

It is a straw purchase. The fact that the friend is not buying the gun for himself and/or the Uncle gave him the money to make the purchase it makes it so.

Now, there is a caveat; you can sell a firearm to any Texas resident that can legally own it, and you can ship it to them if a carrier will take it. If you are selling the gun 'to the Uncle' who is a Texas resident and he is 'paying you' for the firearm, then you can do that. Sell the gun to the Uncle and let the nephew pick up the Uncle's gun and take it to him, as long as the nephew can legally posses the firearm to transport it to the Uncle.

"Straw purchases" do not apply to private sales.

The crime being referred to in "straw purchase" sales is lying on the 4473 form. Since there is no 4473, there is no "straw purchase."

You may not knowingly sell a firearm (privately) to a person that is not allowed to own a firearm. There is no "standard for determination" on that, so basically it boils down to Seller: "Can you legally own a gun?", Buyer: "Yeah, sure", Seller: "Here you go then.."

Keeping a bill of sale is the best way to keep your own paper trail,

Edit: No matter what, do NOT sell a firearm to somebody that cannot provide a current in-state ID. I know that rule doesn't technically apply to rifles and shotguns, but there are SO many ways that kind of a sale can go wrong.

Sell to a CHL holder and record their CHL number on your copy of the bill of sale. That should eliminate any question of whether they can legally own a firearm or not.

LDB415 wrote:Sell to a CHL holder and record their CHL number on your copy of the bill of sale. That should eliminate any question of whether they can legally own a firearm or not.

Lots of people don't want their CHL number recorded by a stranger, so if you are going to write something down (bill of sale, chl number, etc.), make sure the buyer knows your intentions when you arrange the sale.

FYI: Did you know your CHL is not a valid form of identification?

OldCannon wrote:

LDB415 wrote:Sell to a CHL holder and record their CHL number on your copy of the bill of sale. That should eliminate any question of whether they can legally own a firearm or not.

Lots of people don't want their CHL number recorded by a stranger, so if you are going to write something down (bill of sale, chl number, etc.), make sure the buyer knows your intentions when you arrange the sale.

FYI: Did you know your CHL is not a valid form of identification?

It is not a primary form, but it is valid as a supporting ID http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/internetfo ... /DL-17.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Works for voting too.

Yes, you'd want to discuss that beforehand but I mentioned it as it's good proof that everything is ok.

To me, a straw purchase should be one where you buy a gun for a person that is not legally allowed to own one, such as a felon.

misterlarry wrote:To me, a straw purchase should be one where you buy a gun for a person that is not legally allowed to own one, such as a felon.

That is one instance of why some one might make a straw purchase, but it doesn't matter if the person can legally own the gun or not. I am not a lawyer, but I believe that there was a case where a person tried to use that as a defense. I believe he got convicted.

Austin83 wrote:I've been searching this forum and other forums for hours trying to understand what a straw purchase is. Most of the comments I've read lead me to believe that it only applies to purchasing a firearm from an FFL with the intent of giving the firearm to someone else. This act would mean you knowingly lied on the 4473 form. Let's throw a private sale into the mix. Let's say a good friend of mine has an uncle that wants to buy a firearm that I am selling. The uncle is a Texas resident that does not live close to me, but he has agreed to give his nephew cash to purchase the firearm. My friend and his uncle are all Texas residents and they can both legally purchase and possess firearms. What does everyone think?

I will throw another caveat. You can purchase a firearm and give it as gift to someone. But you cannot buy it for someone else and receive payment from them even if both parties can legally purchase the firearm.

Mike

WildBill wrote:

misterlarry wrote:To me, a straw purchase should be one where you buy a gun for a person that is not legally allowed to own one, such as a felon.

That is one instance of why some one might make a straw purchase, but it doesn't matter if the person can legally own the gun or not. I am not a lawyer, but I believe that there was a case where a person tried to use that as a defense. I believe he got convicted.

Is this the case you are referring to?
http://texaschlforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=73195

LDB415 wrote:Sell to a CHL holder and record their CHL number on your copy of the bill of sale. That should eliminate any question of whether they can legally own a firearm or not.

I know a lot of CHL holders and not a one of them would agree to those terms. You want to see my CHL/DL, fine. But you're not getting numbers or making copies.

jmra wrote:

LDB415 wrote:Sell to a CHL holder and record their CHL number on your copy of the bill of sale. That should eliminate any question of whether they can legally own a firearm or not.

I know a lot of CHL holders and not a one of them would agree to those terms. You want to see my CHL/DL, fine. But you're not getting numbers or making copies.

Besides, we do not have a legal duty to "eliminate any question" regarding the other party's legality.

We simply have a duty to avoid negligence or recklessness. It would be negligent to ignore the entire issue and never even ask, "Can you lawfully possess a firearm? Are you a Texas resident?" However, if the questions are asked and the other party simply lies to you, that is on them, absent any other evidence of "willfull blindness" on your part.

jmra wrote:

LDB415 wrote:Sell to a CHL holder and record their CHL number on your copy of the bill of sale. That should eliminate any question of whether they can legally own a firearm or not.

I know a lot of CHL holders and not a one of them would agree to those terms. You want to see my CHL/DL, fine. But you're not getting numbers or making copies.

Most people can remember 8 digits long enough to write it down!!!!