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We are wrapping up our annual qualifications at work. One component of these qualifications is the officers qualifying on their individually owned backup guns and weapons they intend to carry off duty. Ever year, guys show up with Ket-Tecs of various models. Every year we get a new batch of catastrophic failure stories from the Kel-Tecs. Over the past few years I have seen no less then 8 P3ATs die on the range (the actual count is higher, but I was not present when they went down). We are not a giant department, with about 130 sworn officers. These are not minor failures, mind you, in most cases the gun was not able to be repaired even after the range went cold, and we had down time. This year, I handled a PF-9 that belonged to one of my teammates. It had experienced a subtle failure that went unnoticed until he went to shoot his next string during qualifications...the extractor had broken smooth of the gun, and the gun was done. This wasn't a screw backing out, though that would have been equally as tragic in a defensive setting, the extractor snapped off at the attachment point.

If these were isolated incidents, I could maybe be more understanding, but my sample size is significant enough for me to write these things off.

I can't say enough bad things about this brand. I would NOT trust my life to one, or let a loved one/friend/acquaintance do so either without giving them an earful. These products are absolute trash and I can't for the life of me believe that dealers continue to sell them to the concealed carry crowd for defensive purposes with a clean conscience. I see this as an ethical issue that business owners need to address.

I forgot to take pics at the range, but I will try to get some from him tonight and post them up. I don't intend to step on anyone's toes that currently own one of these, but I cannot warn you strong enough that these things are not quality products. Personally, I have experience with Kahr - they are in the same markets with a much higher quality product. I know there are others with good reps, but I am sticking to personal experience in my comments.

Maybe they can trade that Kel-Tec in for another fine gun (or two), like a Bryco, Jennings, Jimenez, Raven, Davis, Phoenix, or Lorcin?

I had a P3AT a few years back. Took it out to the range a few times and then got rid of it. No major failures, just felt cheap. Junk if you ask me.

I owned two P3ATs (one each first and second gen). Bought at different times, but each had similar feeding issues.
--KT was great about sending small parts (none of which did anything).
--I spent a lot of time on the KT forums learning how to "fluff and buff" (which didn't do much either).
--Then I spent a lot of money on new mag and a variety of ammo...none of which made much difference.
I sold each with full disclosure, at significant loss...and I wrote off Kel-Tec as well.

Several years ago, I bought an LCP. So many KT guys say that Ruger ripped off KT. Well, perhaps, but there is one big difference.
The LCP works.

Only had my p 32 for a little over a year with about 500 trouble free rounds through it. Never any ftf or fte. That being said it is a cheap gun and I have never heard of someone not having a problem before a thousand rounds. For some reason it seems the p32 has less problems according to kel tec. Owners. I wouldn't even consider it a backup but an extra deep concealment gun for a last ditch effort scenario. I only carry it when going to the gym in a deep concealment body holster.

Gig I do have to wonder why a Leo would even carry this as a backup while on duty? It's. Not like they are going to get in trouble for printing! Why not just a tried and true 13 ounce j frame. The only purpose for a gun like the p32 or p3at is deep concealment.

The PF9 I had felt incredibly cheap and unstable. It was a nice shooting gun, and with the few rounds I put through it, I didn't have any issues.

George Zimmerman trusted the PF9 to his life

I like my pf9, but that concerns me. I can't risk it not working as my life depends on it as a back up.

CC Italian wrote: Gig I do have to wonder why a Leo would even carry this as a backup while on duty? It's. Not like they are going to get in trouble for printing! Why not just a tried and true 13 ounce j frame. The only purpose for a gun like the p32 or p3at is deep concealment.

I used a Kahr P380 because it was lightweight. I ankle carried and running after someone jumping fences gets difficult with a ~ 1lb revolver on your ankle.


Turns out I didn't describe it right earlier...the extractor did not shear off - the screw holding it in backed out, which caused casings to not eject and also let the firing pin fall out the back of the pistol. I thought the screw was attached to the extractor.

What a piece...

Pics

I guess your right on the snubby for ankle carry. I carry it in an ankle holster sometimes but running down a bg jumping fences? No.My buddy who is a Leo has a backup built into a vest but I think he also has a small ankle carry. I think it is still an air lite ti. Weighs more then my p32 but it is lighter loaded then my snub unloaded by an ounce or two.

Once you get to the size and weight of a pf9 you might as well get a cm9 or nano Imo.

Thanks for the honest heads up. I have not owned one, but have heard similar comments before. Your opinion is all I need to put this one on the black list.

I have seen lots of complaints about them in the past few years. lots of them not running on many ammo types. I have an old p32 and it isn't made the same as the one now. The extractor is deff. different than the spring steel one they use now. Seems like they are shaving off money wherever they can.

Gigag,

Don't take this the personally, I enjoy your posts (99% of the time) just trying to provide some balance.

EVERY brand has failures... go to any of the mfr forums and read until your heart is content.

By the way, your buddy was supposed to use locktite on that extractor screw when he reassembled the pistol. So, that particular failure is more likely an operator induced error in maintenance.

As for Kahr, I also have one and agree they are nice but plenty of people with failures there also- as evidenced by their forums. While KelTec may have a slightly higher percentage of issues than some other brands- (since they are the smallest, lightest in class) but if they were all junk, KT would have been out of business long ago.

flechero wrote:Gigag,

Don't take this the personally, I enjoy your posts (99% of the time) just trying to provide some balance.

EVERY brand has failures... go to any of the mfr forums and read until your heart is content.

By the way, your buddy was supposed to use locktite on that extractor screw when he reassembled the pistol. So, that particular failure is more likely an operator induced error in maintenance.

As for Kahr, I also have one and agree they are nice but plenty of people with failures there also- as evidenced by their forums. While KelTec may have a slightly higher percentage of issues than some other brands- (since they are the smallest, lightest in class) but if they were all junk, KT would have been out of business long ago.

Have carried and shot the PF 9 for years. The thing about lock tite on the extractor screw was, I thought, common knowledge. I know they come from the factory with it on the screw.

I have 4 Kel-tec firearms. all of them work fine.

my LCP has some FTF issues occasionally though, so I'm about to go back to the P3AT or the P238

You guys carry what you want - and feel free to disagree. This is only the internet...

FWIW I have seen a wide variety of firearms run through qualifications and none of them have the frequency and degree of failures that the Kel-Tecs do. I don't consider myself an expert by any stretch, but in my personal and professional life, I have seen MANY handguns run through various courses of fire. I would suggest that ANY handgun attempting to present itself as a serious defensive weapon that requires the regular application of a thread locker to prevent a catastrophic failure is not to be taken seriously. I'm not talking about a sight post flying off, this is a game ending failure. I'm not trying to step on toes and say your brand sucks...but I can't for the life of me wish for any of you to reach for that thing and squeeze off a life-saving round, only to have the gun fall to pieces in your hand, eliminating the possibility of follow up shots.