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More important: What are the rules of engagement that you are subject to when attacked by a foreign martial force ie... Mexican Drug Gang, or worse Mexican troops on our own soil.

The reason that I am asking this is that there seems to be a reluctance to engage armed and violent forces crossing our borders by the military and the border patrol for legal reasons.

I am wondering if I would be prosecuted if I defended my home from an illegal attack with whatever means I may possess at the time. I am starting to wonder if I would be jailed for defending my family my self and my property from violent invaders if they happen to legally reside south of the border of the United States. I am going to post this on a few other forums to see if anyone knows a good answer to this question.

I have two specific scenarios;

1. You are in a vehicle that is stopped at a road block set up by armed personnel. It is blatantly obvious that they are not U.S. military or law enforcement. The conditions are it is night, rural, and you are now unable to back up and evade, the individuals at the road block are approaching your vehicles with weapons pointed at you and your family in the car. Your weapons are limited to CHL pistols and revolvers, I will allow that many may also have a shotgun or rifle in their vehicle as well.

What do you do? What are you allowed to do legally?

2. You are in your residence and the same type of armed group is attacking your house. The conditions are; You are in possession of many types of center fire magazine fed rifles along with shotguns and pistols that many on this board maintain at home.

What do you do? What are you allowed to do legally?

Remember, these two situations are illegal actions being taken against you and your family. Immediate action is necessary to protect life limb and possibly livelyhood. This is also assuming you are not one that engages in illegal activity such as illegal drug or weapons traffickers.

I'm intersted to read others' responses as well.

In both of these senarios, I would not be too concerned about the legalities or other constraints you may be putting yourself under...

To me these look like nightmare senarios that unless you are one of the first people they encounter or stop...I would summize that a sufficient force would be deployed to counter it with full support from local law enforcement...

As for that second senario, again, that one seems like a no-win situation other than if you have time and a means to fight your way out, with what you have on hand, with you between the bad guys and your family and them (family) heading away from the situation...

If the word started getting out in time about roaming gangs of armed illegals or other foriegn entities operating (in these parameters) within our borders...I think we'd have a few other things to worry about as well...

Let me clarify, I would believe you would be in the right to defend yourself with the use of deadly force if you reasonably believe that such force is necessary to the protection of your's and others lives...

In other words, if these armed groups were doing this in and around our country, you can be sure that we would not be the only ones concerned about what to do...

Stevie d 64:
Look at what is happening right now on our very borders. If the National Guard of Arizona is not engaging an armed force, who is going to? We need to begin thinking about these types of issues, as I am of the opinion that what I just wrote about may occur. Thank You
John R. Fuller

I don't believe we will be seeing any "Red Dawn" or "Jericho" type of situations here. Your threat from terrorists is MUCH worse.

I crack up at the militia types on AR15 dot com all of the time.

In any case Texas law sufficiently allows for self-defense.

Why would defending your car or home against these "foreign martial forces" be any different than defending them against an armed group of US criminals?


You can find the Texas Use of force laws in Chapter 9 of the Texas Penal Code.

Google "Texas Legislature" then click on the first link, click on "statutes", then click on "penal code".

In the first scenario, what the heck, no way to back out or evade? Blast away and attempt to survive long enough to dog rob weapons from the ones you have downed.

In the second scenario, a combat loaded shotgun, several semi auto rifles, and knowledge (through observation and daydreaming about such things) of fire lanes and approaches, might contribute to better surviveability for me and my wife.

txinvestigator wrote:I don't believe we will be seeing any "Red Dawn" or "Jericho" type of situations here. Your threat from terrorists is MUCH worse.

I crack up at the militia types on AR15 dot com all of the time.

nothing is more amusing than the "hits the fan gun" subjects. WOLVERINES!!!!

if you are on the border, and happen to venture into nuevo laredo, then i might suspect that the above two mentioned scenarios would be quite possible, considering the status of the zeta mexican drug gang; but then again, you would be in mexico, and not the civilized United States.

and i also think you shouldn't rely only on a weapon. i'd rather have a 4000 lb object hitting bad guys at 65mph, than a 150 grain object moving at 2000 fps any day of the week.

While I agree, this is unlikely, if it did happen, legalities would be the last thing I am concerned about.

cyphur wrote:While I agree, this is unlikely, if it did happen, legalities would be the last thing I am concerned about.

+1 to this, Bubba!

spray and pray............hope that you can get away. Interestng topic.

John R. has way too much idle time on his hands!!

I'm in El Paso...the "invasion" has already happened, many years ago.

One big reason I'm leaving...

-- John D.

Well, my opinions have all been covered already, though only one person seems to have caught onto one fact I wanted t repeat.

First, in any case where my life is in danger, I have Texas laws on my side to allow deadly force for self defense.

Second, I would not care about the laws, survive first and get a lawyer later.

Third, and the point I wanted to repeat, is that you do not have just handguns at the traffic stop scenario. Your best weapon is the almost two ton missile (more if it is a pickup) you are driving. Run the bad guys down. You stand a much better chance of getting through the roadblock this way than any other.

Incidentally, I wanted to point out that a lot of the rules of engagement are different for the military/National Guard than they are for us. We only have to worry about the Penal Code, and damn the international incident if Mexico's government is upset about their citizens being shot.

Situation 1 is very difficult. You eliminated my first choice which would be to back up and run probably getting off a few rounds. However since that is not an option plus my family is also at risk my only options are surrender or try to get away on foot. I would most likely run on foot and hope we can find shelter or a place to hide as well as be missed by their inevidable initial gun shots. I would probably not return fire since my muzzle flash would give away my location, cause the enemy forces to know I am armed as well as be more hostile to me and my family if caught, and also remember most mlitary soldiers (even the mexican military) wear some form of body armor that will most likely stop a pistol round. My family's lives come before mine but I can do them more good alive than dead or captured.
legally as far as I know a foreign military or police is not allowed to possess a firearm while performing an enforcement scenario. I may be wrong on this but its what I was told by a DEA agent a few years ago so section 9 would most likely apply to both scenarios.

Situation 2 is a bit easier I would order my family into the panic room and try to hold off the troops the best I could till either I could get them out of the house and into a safer location or try to divert the troops towards me and lead them away from my family.

The movie Red Dawn raised some good questions like this to me and could easily happen if Mexico allied themselves with an antiamerican country like Cuba, China, or N. Korea; unlikely but possible. There is a difference from being prepared with some form of plan in the back of your head and being an apocoliptic nut job.