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My wife works downtown and there are a very large number of homeless walking the sidewalks, many of whom are mentally ill. She has many stories of them walking up to people and launching a tirade against them without provocation and there have been assaults. There is one guy that you NEVER make eye contact with.

Enough background. My wife is supportive of me having a CHL, but she doesn't feel ready to get her own yet. Her situational awareness is very good now, but I feel she needs to be armed with something.

Which would be more effective, a stun gun or OC? I'm leaning toward OC because they often wear a lot of clothing and I'm afraid the stun gun wouldn't make body contact. What I'm wondering is if the person is highly intoxicated or mentally ill, will the OC still have a strong effect on the person? Also, suggestions for what type/size OC would be appreciated.

ghentry wrote:My wife works downtown and there are a very large number of homeless walking the sidewalks, many of whom are mentally ill. She has many stories of them walking up to people and launching a tirade against them without provocation and there have been assaults. There is one guy that you NEVER make eye contact with.

Enough background. My wife is supportive of me having a CHL, but she doesn't feel ready to get her own yet. Her situational awareness is very good now, but I feel she needs to be armed with something.

Which would be more effective, a stun gun or OC? I'm leaning toward OC because they often wear a lot of clothing and I'm afraid the stun gun wouldn't make body contact. What I'm wondering is if the person is highly intoxicated or mentally ill, will the OC still have a strong effect on the person? Also, suggestions for what type/size OC would be appreciated.

I feel your pain...

I used to work downtown as well...Right across from the HPD HQ on Travis...

The homeless problem has only gotton worse (depending on your point of view)...How you conduct yourself in my opinion is paramount...There are of course many serious, aggressive situations a homeless person will put you in, and sometimes there are a few humorous encounters as well...

I also don't think there is just one "fix" to how you, yourself, handle these situations...

Depending on what her schedule is, my first suggestion is of course to get some sort of defensive spray system...Most of the time during the day, the homeless folk are just adjusting to the crowds coming around to and from work...

Lunchtime is where they will be most active during the day...

They know you got money, and what you are doing out from your office at that time...Obviously...The best thing for her is to stay in a group of people, whether she knows them or not...The homeless alway exploit the individual, mostly if they are walking by themselves and not in a group...

If she parks in an open parking lot (not a garage) that doesn't have proprietary access, and the homeless are out there wandering in the lot...Make that complaint to the owners of that lot...Tell them you'll take you money and business, and get the word out that it is unsafe and not very secure to your co-workers if they fail to step up their own presence in their lot...That does work wonders, believe me...

Parking garages have their own risks...But not so much a homeless problem in there...The precaustions you take in there are obvious...

Unfortunately these are the only things you can do...The City of Houston has a "hot/cold" attitude regarding homeless issues...It only get attention during big city events, and not much at any other time...

Homeless folks like you say, tend not to be anything more than an uncomfortable annoyance to most people...They are not too bright (the ones that actively panhandle)...The violent ones are a small minority that are definitely a problem...All you can do is be alert and ready to deal with it at that time...In a manner you feel most comfortable with...

It is also a problem that will never be solved...Because they do not want to be solved (for the most part)...How we minimize its impact on our lives is about the only thing that will reduce that impact...

I totally empathise with your concerns for your wifes safety...

To me, there are a few other types of criminals that lurk in our downtown area, that are a much more substantial threat to your safety than a homeless person...

For the most part your efforts to identify, access and take the approriate measures for your personal safety are commendable and show great responsibility...

BTW, I still carried to and from work at that job, and kept it secure in my desk while in the office...That was the easy part...

Good luck,
Steve

stevie_d_64 wrote: To me, there are a few other types of criminals that lurk in our downtown area, that are a much more substantial threat to your safety than a homeless person...

The Liberals!

gigag04 wrote:

stevie_d_64 wrote: To me, there are a few other types of criminals that lurk in our downtown area, that are a much more substantial threat to your safety than a homeless person...

The Liberals!

TOUCHE! 8)

ghentry wrote:Which would be more effective, a stun gun or OC? I'm leaning toward OC because they often wear a lot of clothing and I'm afraid the stun gun wouldn't make body contact. What I'm wondering is if the person is highly intoxicated or mentally ill, will the OC still have a strong effect on the person? Also, suggestions for what type/size OC would be appreciated.

OC is better. you don't have to get so close to someone. it'll work on plenty mentally ill people. you can get a small kubaton type key chain that has enough for a good shot. my mom carries one. she can have her keys in her hand for the car and a weapon also. i'm still trying to get my wife to get a CHL.

i went through a crime prevention design class. we had to do a survey on a downtown building in dallas. one of our security recommendations was to put the homeless in the same red shirts as the security guys. they were equally worthless so we figured the extra red shirts would at least give a perception that there are more security and less homeless. :)

orc4hire wrote:This is what I got my wife.

http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/keychain.htm

Ditto. I carry one as well.

orc4hire wrote:This is what I got my wife.

http://www.selfdefenseproducts.com/keychain.htm

I'm stoked...Motivated...

I might just have to sneak by ProDefence here this afternoon and take a look at this stuff...I have never really considered it because I thought I could get away with just having my pistol as a primary means to defend myself...

And this stuff really seems to change the equation when it comes to options you may exercise when dealt a situation where you could, but in this case you certainly could use this product instead of the lethality of a firearm...

And the price...Pretty good for what it can do for you...

The keychain systems are going for about $11 down our way...I'm sure the price is near the same everywhere else they sell them...

What a great Mothers Day, Fathers Day, Sisters Day, wimpy Brother in Laws Day gift idea too!

Gag, I need a life...hehehe

I think OC is a good idea even if you carry a gun because if some guy comes at you unarmed and starts trouble for whatever reason you can't really shoot him.

Is 1/2 oz a good enough size? Also, does it say what the ingredients are? (This is new to me, but I assume there are differing concentrations of "pepper spray").

ghentry wrote:Is 1/2 oz a good enough size? Also, does it say what the ingredients are? (This is new to me, but I assume there are differing concentrations of "pepper spray").

I have had one of the full sized ones for a long time. My cannister was a little over a year old, and I was ready to replace it. Where I teach they were doing an OC certification class. I let them use mine, and they got 8 GOOD doses from it.

OC is measured in skoville heat units. The % concentration you see has zero meaning regarding the potency of the spray.

I also believe that if you carry a lethal means of self-defense you should carry a less lethal means.

In Dallas right after the CHL law was passed a CHL holder used Deadly Force. He and another man had some traffic problem, and the CHL holder got trapped in traffic at a red light and could not move.

The offender approached his truck, and when the CHL holder tried to roll the window up the offender held it down. The offender then proceeded to pound the CHL holder in the face multiple times.

The CHL holder grabbed his .40 pistol and ended the unlawful deadly force with one shot, killing the offender.

ALthough the Grand Jury no-billed the CHL holder, he might not have had to taken a life and avoided a costly legal defense had he had access to OC.

Just a thought,...stay safe.

...get her into a defensive training class. My wife has one of those small metal baton OC sprays that I got her, it was at that time I realized that she was totally unaware of any other alternatives that she had other than a concealed weapon. I then gave her a little in-the-house instruction on how to bury that thing into someone's eye, ear, nose, or other sensitive areas. I then taught her the usual stuff like how ears come off like velcro when pulled, dragon stomp, nose jobs, simple moves to fend off or do real damage, lots of fun things like that. Yep - they are pretty gruesome - but I love her and I want her be ready to give it everything she has should any situation arise where someone has laid hands on.

Thanks for all of the replies. I'll do some shopping this weekend.

dolanp wrote:I think OC is a good idea even if you carry a gun because if some guy comes at you unarmed and starts trouble for whatever reason you can't really shoot him.

OC is some places could work against you. Literally.
(Wind, tight quarters, ie., elevator, etc.)

Folding baton (ASP Style) or blackjack.
Penal code 46.15 (b) (6)

New thread? Applicability of Penal code 46.15 (b) (6)?