TexasCHLforum.com

Watch this video.
http://www.kcentv.com/news/c-article.ph ... &nid=10315

My question is:

If i am a bystander,(browsing in the aisle) and I take lethal action would I go to jail. YES or NO

I never go to liquor stores and I am not for sure about what the prosecutor would do, but I do not think you would be found guilty if the prosecutor decided to charge you. This guy pulled the same stunt in a McDonalds in Grand Prairie and is already on parole. My .02. I do not know why anyone would stand and do nothing. Just my thoughts.

I don't know that we can look at precedence from another state, but what ever happened with the CHL fellow in New Mexico who shot and killed the man who was stabbing his ex-wife (?) in the Wal-Mart? I think that this assault is just as deadly as that one was.

That might be one of the saddest things I've ever seen. This guy will get his.

Most likely if there had been anyone else in the store, the coward would have just walked away.

Here's the applicable code as I see it:

PC §9.33. DEFENSE OF THIRD PERSON. A person is justified in
using force or deadly force against another to protect a third person if:
(1) under the circumstances as the actor reasonably believes
them to be, the actor would be justified under Section 9.31 or 9.32 in
using force or deadly force to protect himself against the unlawful force
or unlawful deadly force he reasonably believes to be threatening the
third person he seeks to protect; and
(2) the actor reasonably believes that his intervention is immediately
necessary to protect the third person.


I'd say it would be justifiable. But are you willing to take the walk down the Grand Jury for a complete stranger? And possibly get sued? Those are the real questions. While I would like to think I would, my responsibility to my family comes before those to a third person.

Would I help them? Absolutely. Pull my gun? Not if I could help it.

Texas Penal Code, chapter 9:

§ 9.01. DEFINITIONS. In this chapter:
(1) "Custody" has the meaning assigned by Section 38.01.
(2) "Escape" has the meaning assigned by Section 38.01.
(3) "Deadly force" means force that is intended or known by the actor to cause, or in the manner of its use or intended use is capable of causing, death or serious bodily injury.

§ 9.02. JUSTIFICATION AS A DEFENSE. It is a defense to prosecution that the conduct in question is justified under this chapter.


§ 9.32. DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON. (a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31;
(2) if a reasonable person in the actor's situation would not have retreated; and
(3) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:
(A) to protect himself against the other's use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or
(B) to prevent the other's imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.


So in a word... you might go to jail briefly, but you won't go to prison. The only possible tripping point is 9.32(a)(2) (a reasonable person would have retreated).

Kevin

I know this is just me but I would've used whatever measure of force necessary to stop the attack on grandma, up to and including deadly force.

I would expect to get No Billed at the Grand Jury.

-nick

Wouldn't be the threat of deadly force work? And if the bad guy turns on you, then use of deadly force will be beyond question.

so some guy is beating up a woman, (deadly force, its a liquor bottle, a club of sorts) how do i know I'm not next?? i say clear leather, call 911 and prepare to apply liberal amounts of lead to the BG if necessary.

The video showed what looked like robbery/aggravated robber and aggravated assault. Seeing as it was against a grandmother... my primary thought would be getting into position for a clear shot.

I would arrest the guy. He committed a felony in my presence. Chapter 9 allows force to be used to effect an arrest also.

txinvestigator wrote:I would arrest the guy. He committed a felony in my presence. Chapter 9 allows force to be used to effect an arrest also.

I'd much rather effect a citizens arrest than shoot the BG. Less liability on your behalf, as I see it. Now resisting that arrest with force, well, I don't like being shot at.

How does the citizens arrest work in Texas, exactly?

nitrogen wrote:How does the citizens arrest work in Texas, exactly?

What do you mean?

He just committed aggravated assault. I would draw on him and tell him he is under arrest and to get on the ground. With my left hand I call 911. If he goes at her again or comes at me I would do whatever I need to protect her or me.

If he fled I would not stop him. First aid for the victim would be the priority.

However, this guy is the same one who knocked a guy out at a fast food place too. I have dealt with his type before, and I do not believe he would flee. I firmly believe he would attack me in that situation.

If you are asking under what conditions a private person can arrest in Texas, here is the relevant law;


Texas Code of Criminal Procedure
Art. 14.01. Offense within view.† [Crime committed within view of
peace officer.]

(a) A peace officer or any other person, may, without a
warrant, arrest an offender when the offense is committed in his
presence or within his view, if the offense is one classed as a felony
or as an offense against the public peace.

Under the CCP one can also arrest to prevent the consequences of theft.

Is there a definition as to what qualifies as an offense against the public peace?

txinvestigator wrote:

nitrogen wrote:How does the citizens arrest work in Texas, exactly?

If you are asking under what conditions a private person can arrest in Texas, here is the relevant law;


Texas Code of Criminal Procedure
Art. 14.01. Offense within view.† [Crime committed within view of
peace officer.]

(a) A peace officer or any other person, may, without a
warrant, arrest an offender when the offense is committed in his
presence or within his view, if the offense is one classed as a felony
or as an offense against the public peace.

Under the CCP one can also arrest to prevent the consequences of theft.

That's exactly what I wanted to know.

What exactly is classified as "offense against the public peace?"