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I didn't see this posted anywhere.

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:34 pm
by Chris
i searched, but surprisingly, i didn't see anything on it. rather scary.

Homeowners Must Lock Up Guns, Massachusetts Court Rules
By Randy Hall
CNSNews.com Staff Writer/Editor
July 02, 2006

(CNSNews.com) - Homeowners must safely store firearms in their residence or they may be held liable for shootings with their stolen guns, the highest appellate court in Massachusetts ruled on Friday.

While a spokesman for an anti-gun group said the decision "sends a clear message" to gun owners, the head of a pro-gun organization said the ruling tries to shift blame away from the person who actually committed the crime.

The decision by the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts in the case of Jupin v. Kask is the first of its kind in the state and "sends a clear message that guns must be stored locked and unloaded," Daniel Vice, staff attorney for the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence said Friday.

After being stopped for questioning along a deserted road on the night of May 10, 1999, Jason Rivers shot Westminster, Mass., Police Officer Lawrence Jupin three times with a .357 Magnum handgun. The policeman fell into a coma and died on November 29, 2002.

Rivers got the firearm from a makeshift cabinet where his father, Willis, stored more than 30 handguns and rifles in a house the father lived in for 15 years with its owner, Sharon Kask. While the storage unit was locked, Rivers was able to unscrew the cabinet door and take the weapon.

Rivers -- who had been discharged in the early 1990s from the Army due to mental problems and failed to attend a hearing on his probation status one week before the shooting -- was charged with Jupin's murder but was diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic and ruled mentally incompetent to stand trial. He was later committed to a state hospital.

Jupin's mother, Joanne, filed a civil suit on May 3, 2002, seeking damages from Kask. The document noted that the homeowner was aware Jason Rivers had a history of violent criminal activity and accused her of not doing enough to keep her live-in boyfriend's weapons secure.

An amicus brief was submitted in support of the lawsuit by attorneys for the Brady Center, the International Brotherhood of Police Officers, the Massachusetts Million Mom March, and Stop Handgun Violence.

The decision in Massachusetts "follows rulings in other states holding gun owners liable for shootings that occur because they have failed to secure firearms in their homes," Vice said. "Courts in Indiana, Kansas and Montana have recently expanded liability of gun owners who fail to secure their guns."

"A police officer's life could have been saved if this arsenal of guns had been secured," Vice added. "Irresponsibility with guns is everyone's problem."

However, Larry Pratt, executive director of Gun Owners of America, criticized the Massachusetts ruling as "holding someone else responsible for what a criminally minded individual did."

Pratt told Cybercast News Service that Sharon Kask and Willis Rivers "had done some due diligence" in storing the firearms. "If Jason Rivers hadn't stolen the gun from his father, he'd have gotten one some other way. That's what criminals do.

"If somebody thinks that a safe in that house would have protected the police officer at the end of the day, that's just not true," Pratt added.

"The fact of the matter is we don't seem to be going after the offender who had a violent record to begin with," he said. "Criminals look at everyone else as 'marks' and think that they are entitled to take advantage of regardless of the law."

Noting that Jason Rivers had violated parole before he shot Jupin, Pratt asked: "Why was he even out of jail? If they want to blame somebody, why not blame the people operating the system that allowed him to be out on the street?"

Pratt was also critical of the philosophy that focuses on the item used during the commission of a crime rather than the actual criminal.

"Do we go after the owner of an automobile who had it locked in the driveway and had it stolen anyway because it was either jimmied or had a window broken by the thief?" he asked. "Will someone sue me for being an accessory to the armed robbery that occurred with my stolen car?"

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:48 pm
by Venus Pax
That's really sad. This is one of the reasons I ordered that life jacket safe for my car while I'm in school.
If someone breaks into my car and gets the gun, I don't want charges filed on me because I own it.
People need to be held responsible for their own behavior.

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:53 pm
by cyphur
Venus Pax wrote:That's really sad. This is one of the reasons I ordered that life jacket safe for my car while I'm in school.
If someone breaks into my car and gets the gun, I don't want charges filed on me because I own it.
People need to be held responsible for their own behavior.
I'm with you. I'm looking into a center-of-mass console safe for the car, and a small safe for the home.

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:08 pm
by txinvestigator
Venus Pax wrote: If someone breaks into my car and gets the gun, I don't want charges filed on me because I own it.
.
In Texas you are not.

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:34 pm
by MrDrummy
Thankfully, we live here.

That just seems way out-of-bounds though.

If we lived in MA, Pax, once the gun was stolen from your car, they may try to prosecute you anyway, from the looks of this story.

Ugh. Pretty ridiculous.

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:38 pm
by Crossfire
Just another reason to be thankful we live in Texas.

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 9:23 pm
by sparx
Yes, but like a virus, the sentiment will spread amongst the antis and infect other states if it's not quickly eradicated. I guess in MA you're now required to budget for a burglar-proof safe before you ever buy your first firearm.

It also opens the door for other nonsense; such as suing the owner of a car that gets stolen because it didn't have a burglar alarm installed and was later used in a vehicular homicide. Or perhaps what if someone breaks into the locked storage shed in your back yard and steals a machete, are you suddenly liable for what damage they do with it? What is this country coming to?

EDIT: Oops... didn't even get to the last paragraph of the article before I skimmed through the replies and left my own... didn't mean to more or less repeat. But I agree, it's absurd.

Posted: Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:58 pm
by Commander
I wonder how much one would be expected to budget for a "burglar proof safe". I once heard that there is no such thing and that safes are rated by how long it takes to break into one. I wonder how long MA thinks a burglar would work to break into a safe.

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 3:27 pm
by JSB-CHL
Under Texas law, I don't think you can criminally be held accountable for it, but I'm sure in Texas civil court you could in some sort or fashion.

IMHO its sort of ironic that a criminal can steal your weapon and kill someone, and you be held accountable. If a criminal informant gives Para-SWAT bad info/address, and they gun you down, from what I've read, Police typically are held unnaccountable (in a criminal sense).

The common denominator seems to be the "criminal".

No offense to LEO, just an observation from someone who tries to apply logic to our CJS.

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:18 pm
by Chris
JSB-CHL wrote:Under Texas law, I don't think you can criminally be held accountable for it, but I'm sure in Texas civil court you could in some sort or fashion.

IMHO its sort of ironic that a criminal can steal your weapon and kill someone, and you be held accountable. If a criminal informant gives Para-SWAT bad info/address, and they gun you down, from what I've read, Police typically are held unnaccountable (in a criminal sense).

The common denominator seems to be the "criminal".

No offense to LEO, just an observation from someone who tries to apply logic to our CJS.
before you can use someone as an informant, you have to have a history with them. in other words, you could use the informant at first to confirm what you already know, but until they've established a reputation for reliability, you can't use an informant's word alone. the police have to be acting in good faith to circumvent liability, but there are things they have to do to verify that good faith behavior.

i just don't see how state supreme court judges could really be that stupid. if someone kicks in my locked front door, takes a gun from my locked gun cabinet, then i'm liable. honestly, what the f*** are they thinking?

Re: I didn't see this posted anywhere.

Posted: Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:43 pm
by JSB-CHL
[quote="Chris"]

......

The decision by the Supreme Judicial Court of Massachusetts in the case of Jupin v. Kask is the first of its kind in the state and "sends a clear message that guns must be stored locked and unloaded," Daniel Vice, staff attorney for the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence said Friday.
[/i][/quote

It would have probably ended up been loaded eventually whether or not it was stored unloaded.

If unloaded, and the $20 in the kiddos piggy bank for an unemployed perp enables him to buy the ammo, does that equate to liability as well in SJC opinion?

Makes no sense.