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Coming to a Law Enforcement agency near you!
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:42 pm
by stevie_d_64
http://www.10news.com/news/20931535/detail.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Sheriff's Department Responds To Sonic Device Outrage
SAN DIEGO -- The San Diego County Sheriff's Department Tuesday responded to 10News' report about a new sonic weapon known as a Long Range Acoustic Device, or LRAD.
The technology has been used in Iraq to control insurgents, and now it is in the sheriff's department's possession.
With some people concerned over whether the LRAD would be dangerous and if it would be used the way it is in war zones, 10News contacted the sheriff's department for their take.
The device was originally made to be used for war, and it emits high-pitched sounds as a form crowd control.
On Monday, members of the American Civil Liberties Union spoke with 10News, and they expressed outrage that local law enforcement had the device and that they had brought it to recent town hall meetings in case things got out of hand.
Kevin Keenan, of the ACLU, said, "We think that local law enforcement shouldn't be using military style weaponry like that."
On Tuesday, Ed Musgrove of the sheriff's department told 10News the device was only being used for good, like helping search-and-rescue teams and warning residents during fires or floods.
"So, it will never be used in San Diego as a weapon?" asked 10News' Ariana Duarte.
"No, not by the Sheriff's Department, no," said Musgrove.
"And that's a guarantee?"
"Yes."
San Diego County Sheriff Bill Gore was recently quoted saying the LRAD was purchased for events "should there be any problems." He also added, "We could use the LRAD in place of pepper spray."
Duarte asked the sheriff's department about the comment and they said it was probably a poor choice of words and insisted that the device was only here to help.
"If the issue was getting the message out to people that need to hear it, then this is the device to do it," said Musgrove.
"So, is it used to startle them?" asked Duarte.
"No."
"Then how is it comparable to pepper spray?"
"I don't know that I would make that comparison."
The LRAD cost the sheriff's department $27,000, and it was paid for with money from a 2007 Homeland Security grant.
Ok, this had had a run in some stories last week during the winding down of the summer recess townhall meetings...A US congresswoman out in California "requested" these devices to be deployed at her townhall meetings "just in case" the angry mobs got out of hand...
These devices appear to be a low-end cost version of the ones used by the military overseas...I saw an episode of Futureweapons where they demo'd a model of this technology that wsa mounted on the back of your standard Humvee...That device had a very fine tuned adjustable wave guide that could pick out a single person in a crowd...
These devices look to be a little less capable, and more tuned to be able to disperse larger groups of people where they are utilized...I have a slight problem with them being used like this for domestic purposes...
This to me is like letting the camel get its nose up under the tent flap...Where does it stop, and more important, who thought this was a good idea???
But notice more important, who is requesting the devices to be deployed...
I'll let y'all draw your own conclusions...
Re: Coming to a Law Enforcement agency near you!
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:38 pm
by bdickens
This continued militarization of the police is scary and dangerous. Truly, our liberty is at risk. I'm all for the cops having the equipment they need to do their jobs but where does it stop. Every podunk rural LE agancy has its own SWAT team now. Where is it going to stop? Tanks and close air support?
Re: Coming to a Law Enforcement agency near you!
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:50 pm
by gemini
Geez. It's California. What do you expect? I quit trying to apply Texas morals and mentality to California
a long time ago. My wifes cousin lives out there, he recently acquired a CCW license, it only took him a
year and a half. Plus, he is only allowed to carry 1 of 2 specific pistols. Alot of other rules and regs we
(Texans) don't have. He's coming to Dallas in 2 weeks...... I told him I'd loan him a gun to carry while
here in case it was too hard to fly out of Calif with a weapon.
California, like Mass., NY, is in trouble because they keep electing the same old politicians. It's like they
never learn. If their Congress woman is afraid of her own constituents........ maybe the sheeple are
starting to come around?
Am I for local LEO's having access to this weapon? No. For more reasons than would be practicle to list.
Re: Coming to a Law Enforcement agency near you!
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:00 pm
by C-dub
I, too, saw this on the Future Weapons show. This is a non-lethal device that doesn't do any actual harm. It makes it uncomfortable to be where you are when aimed at you. I think its primary use would be in crowd dispersion.
There was another device that caused a person to "feel" uncomfortably hot. I think their skin actually heated up, but according to the show, I think it was only the top few layers. This, too, is a non-lethal device used to make someone go away from where they are.
Now, a Humvee with a .50 caliber machine gun mounted on top would be concerning.
Re: Coming to a Law Enforcement agency near you!
Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2009 11:50 pm
by surprise_i'm_armed
IIRC, the LRAD is made in San Diego, so that local connection may have prompted
the San Diego LEO's awareness of the device.
The LRAD has been mounted on cruise ships and cargo ships in order to fend off the
African pirates. I believe that it has been successful in its mission. But if it's been so
successful, why don't all ships have it?
Speaking of LEO's with military equipment, the Smith County, Texas
(Tyler is the county seat) sheriff, combs the government surplus auctions and has purchased 2 APC's
(Armored Personnel Carriers). They are named Bubba1 and Bubba2.
They have the ability to crash through walls and are painted with "Knock. Knock!" on the front.
He loans them out to other agencies when requested.
http://www.smith-county.com/Law/Sheriff/Default.aspx" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The above link has a picture and bio of Sheriff Smith, the 2nd longest serving sheriff in Texas out
of 254 counties.
https://www.county.org/resources/librar ... knock.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The above link has all the details about the APC's.
SIA
Re: Coming to a Law Enforcement agency near you!
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:54 am
by Liberty
C-dub wrote:I, too, saw this on the Future Weapons show. This is a non-lethal device that doesn't do any actual harm. It makes it uncomfortable to be where you are when aimed at you. I think its primary use would be in crowd dispersion.
I guess they are taking the town hall meetings, and tea partys, seriously these days.
Re: Coming to a Law Enforcement agency near you!
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:29 am
by Excaliber
surprise_i'm_armed wrote:
The LRAD has been mounted on cruise ships and cargo ships in order to fend off the
African pirates. I believe that it has been successful in its mission. But if it's been so
successful, why don't all ships have it?
Because a good set of ear protection lets you ignore it.
Here's
how it works and what it does and doesn't do.
Re: Coming to a Law Enforcement agency near you!
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:17 am
by shootthesheet
Like anything else it is the misuse of a tool that is the problem. If they misuse these devices and things like SWAT the leadership that allowed it should be tried and punished. It is the ever expanding capabilities of the governments and the constant repression of the peoples ability to fight back that concerns me more than what tools these governments have.
It is the governments that are meant to be restricted in their powers under our system and not the rights and abilities of the people. If we insist on that we have no reason to fear allowing these departments to have those tools. They work for us from the local level to the Feds and it is time they are made to remember that and adjust their action accordingly or pay with their livelihood and even freedom in extreme cases. Trying to restrict the tools available is like trying to treat the symptoms of a disease and not focusing on the cause to prevent a person from contracting the disease in the first place.
Re: Coming to a Law Enforcement agency near you!
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:16 am
by bdickens
When you get the tool, though, you have to justify its expense somehow. You justify the expense by using it. Often.
Re: Coming to a Law Enforcement agency near you!
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:05 pm
by stroo
Frankly, a tool for crowd control seems more like a police tool than a military weapon. If it works, it is better than massed police with batons, tear gas or fire hoses.
I have much more problem with a sheriff's office buying APCs than I do this. Having said that, some sheriffs may have a valid reason to buy APCs as well.
Re: Coming to a Law Enforcement agency near you!
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 1:29 pm
by joe817
stroo wrote:Frankly, a tool for crowd control seems more like a police tool than a military weapon. If it works, it is better than massed police with batons, tear gas or fire hoses.
I have much more problem with a sheriff's office buying APCs than I do this. Having said that, some sheriffs may have a valid reason to buy APCs as well.
I agree stroo. I wonder how many lives could have been saved during the Watt's race riots of 1965(34 people killed), or the Los Angeles riots of 1992(53 people killed, and $1 billion in damages), if they had those technologies back then?
Re: Coming to a Law Enforcement agency near you!
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 3:49 pm
by wheelgun1958
There is NO need for civilian law enforcement to have APCs or automatic weapon toting ninjas.
Re: Coming to a Law Enforcement agency near you!
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:18 pm
by srothstein
Wheelgun,
I kind of disagree with you. There would be no need for law enforcement to have APC's if we allowed the military to back them up in those situations where they would need it. The law enforcement needs special teams like SWAT for certain scenarios, but they should not be dressed up in ninja like outfits (especially face covered). A tactical uniform like blue BDU's would be acceptable if clearly marked as a police uniform. So there is a need for the vehicles and teams.
I have to admit that after doing this for 30 years, I do no think I have seen or come up with a scenario that justifies full auto for law enforcement duties. It might have been justified back when the Thompson was invented and most rifles were bolt action, but nowadays I do not think it can be justified. I am willing to listen if someone cares to debate that since I must admit to not knowing everything there is to know about law enforcement.
Re: Coming to a Law Enforcement agency near you!
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:55 pm
by joe817
wheelgun1958 wrote:There is NO need for civilian law enforcement to have APCs or automatic weapon toting ninjas.
Have you forgotten about the 2 bank robbers out in California about 10 years ago who had full body armor, full auto AK's, with steel core bullets? The police were totally impotent in trying to stop those thugs, for they had no rifles at all, nor did they have an APC to rescue the downed LEO's. Who's to say some radical criminals won't try it again? APC's? I have no prob. with the cops having them. Dallas has a couple, and have used them many times in their drug interdiction, fugitive arrest, and hostage rescue missions.
NOT allowing law enforcement having the tools they need to combat crime, is a crime unto itself, IMO.
Re: Coming to a Law Enforcement agency near you!
Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:18 pm
by CompVest
NOT allowing law enforcement having the tools they need to combat crime, is a crime unto itself, IMO.
So long as they don't mistake my house or another good guy's house for their BG's. In other words do their home work.