Introduction of firearms to less than "ideal" children

[CrimsonSoul]

So my wife *may* be getting custody of her 9 year old son of which the father's grandparents currently have custody if "they aren't able to handle him" they are up there in age and kinda ill so I figure more likely than not that she will get custody.

This boy has a hard head and is very very destructive and is currently in a mental institution (at 9 years old) for up to 6 months for bringing a bb gun to school and shooting his teacher. I know, honor roll student here! I believe the reason for this situation is because his father recently had a child with his now ex-fiance and was paying no attention to my wifes son so he acted out.

I think with a bit of "belt across the rear" discipline (which my wife is fine with) he can be brought into line. If she gets custody I want to teach him safe handling of firearms in an attempt to get him to NEVER to anything that stupid again (all my firearms are in a safe I have 3 kids under 5 btw). Is this a good idea if we get custody of him, and how would you go about doing this with a child of this history?

edit: I've met him a few times and I believe he's a good kid but just has a lack of direction and discipline and he's not sure how to deal with it all when he becomes "upset" with someone and I think with some direction my and my wife can turn him around, thoughts on all of this?

P.S. if he gets out early in August (which he probably will) they will be bringing him down here to visit with the family and he's very excited. Actually any mention of his mom usually gets him to start acting in a better behavior.

[LaserTex]

Crimson...I am not a DOC or anything official.... so take this with a grain and move on if you want.

Use the belt to "GET THEIR ATTENTION" - my mom used to send us to our (sis and I) "I cool off so I don't beat you to death" for serious offenses. Those 2 hours+ or so SUCKED in a big way because my sis and I figured out really quick that the longer it took for MOM to come in meant more spats....not a bad thing now that I am 42.

Those 2+ hours were ........ horrible. WORSE than the spats. Mom would FINALLY come into the room and sit on the bed and we would "discuss" the offense....and eventually agree on the punishment. Started at 3 minimum. Went higher if I made it harder on her by ...running, hiding....whatever. We would talk until the number of spats "agreed on". MINIMUM 3 --- my sister made it to 13 before she finally got it that calling MOM a "female dog" was not a good idea (thank you God for allowing me to have an older sis!!!!) My mom would listen to our "reason" for the infraction and decide if the reasoning was sound. If not....double! Made me decide that being in that "situation" wasn't on my "fun to do list"

My GUESS is that some (most) of the problem is attention....and the kid will get attention anyway they can.

Personally, i would set the rules, explain the ramifications for breaking those rules. Then I would give them a "responsiblity" of being the big brother. Make them RESPONSIBLE for _____________________ and STRESS that as the OLDEST kid, they are RESPONSIBLE for HELPING the others.

You wiil be surpised at the result!

Doug

[hheremtp]

Crimson,

I am by no means the worlds best parent, so take this for what it is worth. My opinion is that this little boy should show a marked improvement in both his behavior and maturity level prior to you even considering allowing him to touch a gun. For me that bar would be set at a higher level than normal given past events. good luck to you and your wife.

[jimlongley]

Beating a child accomplishes many things, at least three of which are:

They learn that the person beating them is bigger than they are and can mete out beatings.

That beatings are appropriate responses.

That the fist, belt, or golf club (in my case) is not propelled by love.

I will not argue that discipline is not necessary, but planning in advance to give a kid a belt anywhere is tantamount to premeditated child abuse in my opinion, there are far better ways to accomplish behavior modification all they have to be is tailored to the child.

Do I think it works every time, all the time? No, witness my own stepson, who has never figured out that there are things you do not do in society. But years ago I "fostered" a couple of kids while raising my own young family (including two other step children who have done just fine) and both "Rick" and "Rat" turned potentially wasted lives around, just with a system of firm, strict, discipline and rules in a rewards based system.

I am sure there is way more to the story than can be told on a public forum, such as why your wife doesn't have custody to begin with, but you have already given an indication about his behavioral changes when he anticipates a perceived reward, and that's the kind of thing that needs to be nurtured.

I taught all of my kids to handle firearms properly, even "Rick" and "Rat" and grounded my stepdaughter for a month, three weeks before her junior prom (a long story in itself) and it stuck, but I have only hit one of my children once and I still regret my loss of control to this day - that day I became my father in my eyes, and I never held any respect for him.


[/rant] Too many bad memories.

[C-dub]

Spanking has its place. If used, it must be sparingly and appropriate. If overused/abused, they will just become resentfull and violent towards you or others in retaliation, but maybe not for years. Each time my dad spanked me I knew why and although I didn't like it I don't recall thinking that it was unfair. I'm the same way with my daughter. The only thing I do differently than my dad is discuss her poor choice that lead to the spanking afterward.

This is such a tough call. I almost think 9y is beginning to get a little too old to spank. I think by this time they have begun to realize that the pain from a spanking it short lived and they will just take it and get over it. When this happens parents must switch to witholding priveleges that were given because of good behavior.

It is a very delicate balance.

Sincerely,
Good luck!!!

[HankB]

The kid shot his teacher with a BB gun?

If a 9-yo mental patient with a history of violence were coming to live with me and my "3 kids under 5" I wouldn't just worry about guns; I'd worry about bullying of the younger kids, the 9-yo's bad influence on the younger ones, the availability of things like sharp kitchen knives and blunt objects, and "lesser" misbehaviors such as stealing.

If the little miscreant does join your household, keep a close eye on him and don't keep seeking excuses if he doesn't straighten up right fast.

I really hope you can resolve your problem and that things ultimately work out OK.

[TDDude]

James Dobson and Zig Zigler both have great books on child rearing. I suggest you get them and read them.

After having 4 children, I can say that spanking does work but my kids only needed it a couple times in their lives. Also, I have one child where it really didn't work at all so other things were done.

One thing that is true is that little boys NEED their moms so the simple fact that he wants to be with her is a huge plus. You, as her husband, will have to earn his respect. Your wife will have a huge part in seeing to it that this respect is imparted. Her son will watch how she treats you and should copy it. In other words, make sure the relationship with your wife is tight and aligned properly so that he has a solid example of who you are.

The bad thing may be that he believes that living with mom will be cool because he thinks she'll let him run free. If that is the case, Lord help you.

Good luck and keep us posted.

[Bob Landry]

To make excuses for a mentally disturbed child's behavior and to give him access to firearms and instruction on how to operate them under ANY condition is begging for a tragedy to happen. With that line of reasoning, you might just as well try time-out and hope for the best. The reason he only shot the teacher with a BB gun is because something more powerful just wasn't available to him. To fool yourself into thinking this kid just has some kind of syndrome because his Dad wouldn't buy him a hot dog at the ball game and he'll outgrow it is crazy. To allow him into your home without some serious consultation with the doctor who treated him in the mental facility, if he was even given treatment at all, is irresponsible on your part and a detriment to you and your family's safety. I wouldn't be fooled by an improvement in attitude/behavior either. The parents of the kids who committed mass shootings in schools had no idea their kids had problems. You need to really think about the safety of your entire family. Good luck to you, and I hope we won't be reading about you here.. Even Ted Bundy had good days..

[Abraham]

Wait - A significantly long time before firearms training.

It's NOT a priority.

Let a lot of time pass and his sense of responsibility mature - assuming it does... (sadly, a very small percentage of people become sociopaths)

Right now, he needs a lot of loving attention and the great good that will come from it.

[Liberty]

The reason he only shot the teacher with a BB gun is because something more powerful just wasn't available to him. T

To be fair unless you actually know the child, we really don't know that this is true.

I must confess that I have shot people with an air gun, I was never tempted to do so with a more powerful gun.

[quidni]

Don't forget - this child has already been "through the system." The way you're even allowed to discipline him could be prescribed for you by CPS.

I agree with the others that even limited access to firearms (including "toys" like airsoft) should be strictly prohibited until such time as the child shows that he does respect you & can be trusted in other areas. Access to KNOWLEDGE about firearms is different. Start with Eddie Eagle. If you see a gun, don't touch it, leave it alone, and find an adult.

Could be he used the BB gun, not because he didn't have anything bigger, but because it was a way of getting attention that he figured wouldn't cause a real injury. No way of knowing at this point what's going on in his head.

But he's still a child, and children can heal, and learn.

Remember the biggest part of Discipline is LOVE and SECURITY. Love even when they don't deserve it. Security that the adults will always be there for them, no matter how bad they mess up. Doesn't mean you'll disregard the error - but you'll help them find a constructive way of correcting it.

God bless.

[nitrogen]

For some kids, a good beating is great discipline. I was one of those kids, and I turned out OK (so I say!)

It's not the only way. It shouldn't always be used, nor should it never be used. The trick, as my mom said, was to keep us guessing what would happen. One time we got a beating for something releatively minor, and for something major, we got grounded. As kids, we never knew what the punishment would be, so after we grew up, we tended to skate on the better side of things.

We tried not getting caught, that never worked. My mom was magic, much like Malcom in the Middle's mom (if ya'all ever saw that show)

[Bob Landry]

The reason he only shot the teacher with a BB gun is because something more powerful just wasn't available to him. T

To be fair unless you actually know the child, we really don't know that this is true.

I must confess that I have shot people with an air gun, I was never tempted to do so with a more powerful gun.

Then you too, sir, had issues..

[The Annoyed Man]

Wait - A significantly long time before firearms training.

It's NOT a priority.

Let a lot of time pass and his sense of responsibility mature - assuming it does... (sadly, a very small percentage of people become sociopaths)

Right now, he needs a lot of loving attention and the great good that will come from it.

Not to take away from anything others have posted, but this is the best answer so far. If you have a safe, use it. Keep guns out of his hands - not even under your supervision - until he has shown you that he can be trusted with the responsibility. Abraham is right - firearms training is not your highest priority at this point. Simply restoring his life to some normalcy and getting him whatever help he needs to make that happen is far more important than whether or not he learns to shoot right now.

I loved to go fishing with my boy when he was just a tyke. Although we eventually started shooting together (when he was about 6 or 7), it was fishing that provided the environment in which our father/son bonds were really forged. And the advantage of fishing over shooting is that it is a far more relaxed activity for a novice. There's no fear to overcome, and there are far fewer safety issues to be concerned about.

Later, when you have confidence in the boy's emotional stability, you can begin to introduce him to firearms. I highly recommend a single shot .22 rifle. That's what I started my son on.