Trying to purchase a firearm from out of state

[propellerhead]

What a mess!

It shouldn't be this complicated. I replied to the seller's thread on a message board and we eventually agreed on a price. I contacted an FFL locally and got them to fax the seller a copy of their license. The seller could not read the license so the FFL mailed a copy the next day. Great!

In the meantime, the seller's PayPal account is geared to accept payment from PayPal accounts linked to bank accounts. My PayPal account is linked to a credit card I use for online purchases only so I had to link it to an older bank account. To do that, the PayPal system has to send two small deposits to my bank account and when those show up, I was to enter the amounts into a verification page at PayPal. This was done late Thursday so I didn't see the deposits till Monday. By the end of Monday, I was able to verify the link and my PayPal account is now linked to a bank account. Great!

PayPal figured out that the seller is using PayPal for a firearms purchase. They cancel his account. After all that work I am now forced to send the seller a bank check. Ugh!

It's been a full week and the seller still hasn't received the license from the FFL. What the heck?! I contacted the store and they said they sent it out. They offered to send out another one but I decided to try a different FFL. Ugh!

I talked to another store and they said they would fax a copy and mail out a copy on the same day. Great! So I call the first store and cancel the whole deal. Fortunately, they didn't charge me any annoyance fees. The new place then tells me that they only accept handguns from other FFLs. They said the law says that the seller has to go to an FFL, then that FFL mails the gun to my FFL, and then I go see my FFL to pick it up. What?!

So, here I am. Over a week since we agreed on a price and nothing has happened yet. We're still at step one where we agreed on a price. What a mess! I think I will go to the first FFL place and get a legible copy and walk over to Kinko's and fax it myself.

What's the story on private sales from out of state? FFL to FFL only? Or can it be private seller to in-state FFL?

Does it really get this complicated?


/rant off

Edit: I went back to the first FFL and obtained a signed copy of their license. The contrast on that thing is terrible and there's a black background on the license number. I can see why this thing can come out screwy on older or lower quality fax machines. Anyway, I also got a bank check from my bank and mailed the FFL and bank check to the seller. What a pain. I don't think I'll be doing a non-FTF purchase again. Not unless it's a real steal of a deal.

[dpatterson]

Out of State deals concerning handguns go from FFL to FFL. And they are supposed to be shipped overnight...

I think that even in state, non-FTF deals, still have to use a FFL to FFL approach when dealing with handguns.

Everybody has to get their money... And Complicated does not even touch it....

I have a copy of the FFL I use in PDF form.. I got a good copy and scanned it at work... This works very well...

Daniel

[KinnyLee]

And they are supposed to be shipped overnight...

Really? Everytime I get something from Impactguns, they ship it DHL, but never overnight. Maybe there is an exception somewhere?

[dpatterson]

I have been told that it is a FEDEx and UPS Rule... They want to offload the gun ASAP...

Every handgun I have ever gotten was shipped over night or second day... I think its just a way for the shipping companies to make an extra buck...

[longtooth]

I have neighbor that is a UPS rep. It is their policy not any law or regulation.

[HighVelocity]

Out of State deals concerning handguns go from FFL to FFL. And they are supposed to be shipped overnight...

That's not accurate.

A private individual can send a firearm to an FFL in another state.
But, a private individual must use UPS or Fedex overnight.

If a firearm is going FFL to FFL they get to use usps priority mail and save some money.

[propellerhead]

I ended up going to the FFL and obtaining a copy of the FFL. I'll mail it myself along with a bank tellers check. As I dug deeper and found that:

Only rifles can be shipped by USPS. Handguns have to go through FedEx/UPS.

I can purchase a firearm from an out of state source as long as I go through an FFL on the buyer's end. I did not see anything that says the seller must go through an FFL too.

Paypal's firearm policy sucks.

[kw5kw]

Out of State deals concerning handguns go from FFL to FFL. And they are supposed to be shipped overnight...

That's not accurate.

A private individual can send a firearm to an FFL in another state.
But, a private individual must use UPS or Fedex overnight.

If a firearm is going FFL to FFL they get to use usps priority mail and save some money.

I just shipped my Kel-Tec to Florida for repairs.

Yes, I did use UPS ground to ship to Kel-Tec.

That was the first of the month.


Yesterday, (June 14th) I get an overnight pkg from UPS... from Kel-Tec. Yep, it's my repaired weapon.

They did ship overnight... requirement on thier part? I don't know.

Requirement on my part... definately not.

Russ

[Wilson]

In April I purchased my fourth out of state handgun ($200 for a two-month-old hard chrome P-3AT). The seller in Colorado shipped it via UPS ground (under $10 including ins.) to my FFL. He charges $10 to watch me fill out the paper work and show my CHL. Considering no sales tax are required on private sales, the FFL fee seems negligible.

I paid a Pay Pal ticket the seller setup using my VISA Card and had the pistol in 5 days. Sorry, your transaction didn’t go as well

Oh, the seller verified the FFLs validity and mailing address online, so accepted a fax copy instead of an ink-signed copy.

[dpatterson]

Found this on GunBroker.com I stand corrected... I didnt know you could ship a handgun directly to a FFL...

Shipping Legalities
Federal Law requires that all modern firearms be shipped only to a holder of a valid Federal Firearms License (FFL). The recipient must be have an FFL; however the sender is not required to have one. Any person who is legally allowed to own a firearm is legally allowed to ship it to an FFL holder for any legal purpose (including sale or resale).
Here is exactly what the ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

[Wilson]

Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

If you get a chance to read the reference sighted at the bottom of (B9) [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31] you will see that FFLs and manufactures are “other than�, so you need not notify common carriers if you are shipping a gun to them.

As usual those O&A thing are general statements and a detail reading is required. It’s a violation for the carrier to note that on the outside of the package. If you tell them there is a gun inside they will put it on that sticker on the package, which means you will be helping them violate the 1986 Gun Control Act