TexasCHLforum.com

Here's a topic I haven't seen yet - If you are out walking your dog (as I often do in the neighborhood), and you are confronted by an agressive dog on the street, does your CHL give you the right to defend your dog as you would a member of your family? I live within the city limits of the city of Arlington, TX, but also own property outside the city limits where i also occasionally walk her; anyone have any insights about the particular rules for this??

Subscribing. Also want to know what everyones thoughts are on defending your dog from people. For example, what do you do if someone is throwing large rocks at your dog?

Most states treat pets as property, so any force you are legally allowed to use to defend property you can use to defend pets.

As lame as that might be, I believe that's the law.

Yep.. In Texas animals are considered property, so legally you cannot justify using force (IANAL), especially deadly force against another person for that or another dog. Now if the dog is coming towards your dog and YOU, then you might be in fear for you life. And if the rocks are flying in your direction and hitting close then you might be in danger. And if you were in danger you could defend yourself as both a rock and a decent size dog can seriously injure or kill you. But as usual, avoidance is best and if you have other force options such as pepper spray/OP, then those could be used.

Nitrogen is correct. Texas law defines companion animals as chattel. Mere property. Like a hammer, or a 2x4 stacked in your garage.

Your legal defense would be based on that.

However, if someone decides to harm a companion animal, the owner may feel she's worth more than mere chattel.


[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=oJLO_JI9Pns[/youtube]

killerfly128 wrote:Subscribing. Also want to know what everyones thoughts are on defending your dog from people. For example, what do you do if someone is throwing large rocks at your dog?

What are the circumstances? Is your dog on his front lawn growling at his 5 year old daughter and he's throwing rocks to chase it away?

boomerang wrote:

killerfly128 wrote:Subscribing. Also want to know what everyones thoughts are on defending your dog from people. For example, what do you do if someone is throwing large rocks at your dog?

What are the circumstances? Is your dog on his front lawn growling at his 5 year old daughter and he's throwing rocks to chase it away?

Nope, say there are some punk kids walking around and start yelling and throwing large rocks at the dog. The dog is in its yard and The owner is out of view but watching the off the leash dog. Dog does not approach the kids or act aggressive in any manner.

Skiprr wrote:Nitrogen is correct. Texas law defines companion animals as chattel. Mere property. Like a hammer, or a 2x4 stacked in your garage.

Your legal defense would be based on that.

However, if someone decides to harm a companion animal, the owner may feel she's worth more than mere chattel.


[youtube]http://youtube.com/watch?v=oJLO_JI9Pns[/youtube]

I think Marcus acted accordingly. I know I love my yellow lab like a family member, it sure would be hard to act as rationally as Marcus did in that situation.

Off topic: If you haven't read his book "Lone Survivor" I highly recommend it. It was a great read.

How is it then that a dog attacking livestock (also 'mere property') can be killed immediately (been there, done it, got the pass by the sheriff), but a dog attacking your dog cannot!?!?!? This is assuming you are outside of a city that forbids the discharge of firearms...

CDH wrote:How is it then that a dog attacking livestock (also 'mere property') can be killed immediately (been there, done it, got the pass by the sheriff), but a dog attacking your dog cannot!?!?!? This is assuming you are outside of a city that forbids the discharge of firearms...

IANAL, but there is a distinct differentiation between livestock and non-livestock animals in the penal code, presumably because livestock represent someone's livelihood and source of income. The pertinent section of the code for which the sheriff gave you a pass is §42.092(e)(1): "[It is a defense to prosecution...that] the animal was discovered on the person's property in the act of or after injuring or killing the person's livestock animals or damaging the person's crops and that the person killed or injured the animal at the time of this discovery."

The other distinction is for "assistance animals," like seeing-eye dogs (§42.091).

And I admit I exaggerated the "mere property" thing a bit with the comparison to a 2x4 sitting in your garage. I'm fond of animals and think the penalties should be stiffer, but there are cruelty-to-animals statutes on the books that make the incident that Marcus Luttrell suffered a state felony. That said, I've never read anything gives you a defense to prosecution if you shoot a dog that is attacking your dog unless the attacking dog can be construed a dangerous wild animal as defined by §822.101 of the Health and Safety Code, or unless the dog is also attacking you and your use of force or deadly force is justified under Chapter 9 of the penal code.

But again, I ain't no lawyer, so don't trust what I say. Someone who is a lawyer will come along and set us straight...

If a dog is only property, then the 'attacking' dog would also be considered property as well, no?

If that's true, worst I can see is a 'destruction of property' charge for actually shooting it. Now the act of unconcealing your weapon may be the stiffer of the charges possibly faced.

Personally, if a dog attacks me or my family (I consider my pets part of my family), I would put it down.
For all I know, the dog is attacking because it has rabies, or was a trained attack dog that is precursor to someone attempting to rob me, or something. (Would trained attack dogs qualify as a 'deadly weapon'? Lethal Force? Possibly.)

I can't see anyone getting charged with shooting a dog that's attacking their dog, or themselves, on their property, or with that person out somewhere, like in a public park.

Now, I'm not talking about a little scuffle between 2 dogs on leashes.. I'm talking about serious bites, bloodshed, an unleashed dog behaving in an obvious threatening manner that cannot be avoided. (turn around, walk away, go around, etc), or a dog clearly fast approaching you with the obvious intent to attack.

I think that if my dog was with me and another dog attacked . . . In court I would say the dog attacked us.
Dog and I are together. We're a pair, a team. Someone or something attacks one of us, then for all we know he/it intends to harm or kill us both.
I don't know how well that would hold up, but if I was forced into that situation, that's the way I'd spin the story.

My understanding is that I have the right to defend my property. I would be legally justified to use deadly force if someone walked into my garage and took the hammer or 2x4 mentioned above and I followed the proper procedures under PC 9.41 Protection of One's Own Property. PC 9.42 Deadly Force to Protect Property states:
(3) he reasonably believes that:
(A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by
any other means; or
(B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover
the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial
risk of death or serious bodily injury

Now whether this is intelligent to attempt is different and has been discussed relating to TV's and such. Back to the dog scenario. I agree that you can't defend them as a member of your family, but you can protect them as your property. I know the law is referring to force against a human, but if you're justified against a human, does a dog have greater rights? Common sense suggests that you could and should protect your dog (and yourself) from an attacking dog. You should then attempt to recoup the cost of the expensive ammunition used, the pain and suffering at trying to find replacement ammo, and the emotional trauma caused by having to use a precious commodity.

I walk my mom's dog a couple of times a week for her. He's getting to be an old fart but is pretty large 70-75 lb. They way I view it:

*If its a smaller dog I can shush it away or drop kick it through the field goal of life (a Dadism).

*If its a dog large enough to be a threat to that old furry cow (I'm talking pit bull/rottweiler type level here), then its large enough to be a threat to me, and I will respond, if necessary, in such a manner. He's on a leash at all times.

donh wrote:Here's a topic I haven't seen yet - If you are out walking your dog (as I often do in the neighborhood), and you are confronted by an agressive dog on the street, does your CHL give you the right to defend your dog as you would a member of your family?

There was a long one less than two months ago.
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... =7&t=23494

There were some other recent ones like these.
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... 26&t=21679
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... =7&t=22268

You should also look up the story of Harold Fish.