TexasCHLforum.com

Looks like there's some controversy about deploying the National Guard. My own opinion is that if the military is used, it should be used only as a quick reaction force, reacting to armed incursions or attacks on the Border Patrol or citizens.

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http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/nati ... urity.html

Plan to put National Guard at border frightens West Texas town

By Alicia A. Caldwell
ASSOCIATED PRESS

8:42 p.m. May 13, 2006

REDFORD, Texas – The last time the U.S. military posted troops on the border near this tiny cluster of farms and ranches, an 18-year-old goat herder was shot to death.

Hardly a day passes that Esequiel Hernandez Jr.'s family and neighbors don't think of May 20, 1997, the day a Marine corporal shot and killed him.

With President Bush considering plans to deploy National Guard troops along the Mexican border, Hernandez's family is worried that other border residents or even his nephews, who tend goats along the same rugged West Texas desert where he was killed, could be the next victims.
“There was no motive for them to (shoot) Esequiel and I worry that the same thing could happen, or worse,� his grandfather, 79-year-old Valerio Pando, said in Spanish.

It is widely speculated that President Bush will unveil a plan to send troops to the border during a Monday night speech about immigration reform. Details of the plan are unclear but at least one defense official estimated that thousands of troops could be deployed as part of a security initiative.

The last time area residents saw the military working on the border in their Big Bend region town, the Marines assigned to an anti-drug mission were explaining what led to Esequiel Hernandez's death.

At the time of the shooting, the military said the teen, who was carrying a .22-caliber rifle, fired twice at the camouflaged troops and raised his gun to fire a third time when Cpl. Clemente Banuelos shot back. Hernandez's family disputes that account.

Several months after the shooting, a grand jury declined to indict Banuelos. But a congressional review of the incident later criticized the U.S. Justice Department for its handling of the case. Similar anti-drug patrols involving the military were suspended after the shooting.

Dianna Valenzuela, a 54-year-old farmer who lives in the area and knows the Hernandez family, said bringing troops back to the border in any capacity is a recipe for disaster.

“Wherever the military is, they are trained to shoot first and ask questions later,� Valenzuela said. "

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/05/15/D8HK8H000.html

"Under Bush's proposal, formed in consulation with border-state governors who command the National Guard, Border Patrol agents would maintain primary responsibility for physically guarding the border. National Guard soldiers will not perform law enforcement duties, but will help in such areas as construction, surveillance and transportation, Snow said. "

Minutemen Dismiss Bush's Border Plan

http://www.kpho.com/Global/story.asp?S=4914885&nav=23Ku

"(AP) -- A civilian border watch group considers President Bush's crackdown plan on illegal immigration insufficient and is sticking to plans to start putting up a short border security fence on private land along the Mexican border.

On Monday, the president announced his intent to temporarily deploy up to 6,000 National Guard troops to support the U.S. Border Patrol -- but not conduct patrols themselves -- as part of an effort to gain control of the porous southwestern border with Mexico.

In a nationally televised address, Bush endorsed a temporary worker program and said he wants new, secure identification cards for legal foreign workers; would let illegal immigrants with otherwise clean records pay a fine and start along a path to become citizens and would make employers take responsibility for those they hire.

Chris Simcox, the head of the Minuteman Civil Defense Corps, said last month that unless military reserves or the National Guard were deployed to the border and the White House endorsed more secure fencing, his group would begin constructing fencing on private land along the border.

Last week, the group said construction would begin May 27 because it was not anticipating any imminent effort to put troops on the border.

On Tuesday, Minuteman spokeswoman Connie Hair reiterated that position, despite the president's announcement to have guardsmen fill in on some behind-the-lines Border Patrol jobs while that agency's force is expanded by 6,000 by 2008.

"This is a token deployment of unarmed and grossly inadequate numbers of National Guardsmen to the border, placing them in the same demoralizing position as the Border Patrol ... outmanned and outgunned against the international crime cartels," Hair said.

"We're now more determined than ever to build it, because this is not by any means putting troops on the border. It's adding more people to the mix who will not be in position to do actual patrols," Hair added.

Hair said the plan remains to build 50 to 150 feet of a double fence on a privately owned ranch over the Memorial Day holiday weekend.

Nearly 1,000 Minuteman volunteers had signed up on the group's Web site, but probably 300 to 350 will be used to work on the fencing, according to Hair.

Others who turn out at a gathering point in southeastern Arizona will help set up stationary observation posts Friday through Monday along a stretch of the border with Mexico. The observers will watch for and report illegal border crossers to the Border Patrol.

Hair said the president could well be placing those National Guard troops who are to be assigned to build roads along the border in a perilous situation, where they potentially could come under fire from criminal elements across the international boundary.

"From everything we can tell, they're going to be unarmed," she said. "Who will guard the National Guard? If it's the Border Patrol, doesn't that defeat the idea of sending troops to the border in the first place?" "

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/met ... 68579.html

"Texas National Guard to go to border during training

...Texas has almost two-thirds of the border with Mexico...

...Officials previously emphasized that, as stipulated by federal law, the troops would not engage in apprehension or guarding of illegal immigrants...."

Just to throw some gas on the fire here...
How is having the national guard at the border (the national guard being volunteers that are not trained in police-type operations) any different than having the minuitemen (who are volunteers that are not trained in police-type operations...) ?

I know this one!

The national guard is openly carrying select fire weapons. What do I win?

Kalrog wrote: I know this one!

The national guard is openly carrying select fire weapons.

Probably not. If they carry rifles, they probably won't have ammunition. If they do have ammunition, it will probably be 5 rounds duct-taped into the magazine pouch.

Been there, done that, different border (East Germany).

I'll wager that the Minutemen will be better armed than the NG.

Kevin

Where did I say anything about ammunition? Just that the weaponse would be select fire. Not that they could actually fire...

Yeah, creazy policies sometimes.

KBCraig wrote:If they carry rifles, they probably won't have ammunition. If they do have ammunition, it will probably be 5 rounds duct-taped into the magazine pouch.

Been there, done that, different border (East Germany).

It's a crazy world. I heard that after Hurricane Andrew the National Guard deployed with no ammo. And the media told everybody they had no ammo... and then some of the homeboys (who of course did have ammo) went and got themselves select fire M16's from ammoless NG soldiers.

As a side note, apparently the Texas National Guard unit's that deployed brought along their personal ammo

Paladin wrote:

KBCraig wrote:If they carry rifles, they probably won't have ammunition. If they do have ammunition, it will probably be 5 rounds duct-taped into the magazine pouch.

Been there, done that, different border (East Germany).

It's a crazy world. I heard that after Hurricane Andrew the National Guard deployed with no ammo. And the media told everybody they had no ammo... and then some of the homeboys (who of course did have ammo) went and got themselves select fire M16's from ammoless NG soldiers.

As a side note, apparently the Texas National Guard unit's that deployed brought along their personal ammo

We don't trust the NG to carry ammo? I could have sworn some of them have been sent to Iraq...... you guys are making this up!

Paladin wrote:http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/05/15/D8HK8H000.html

"Under Bush's proposal, formed in consulation with border-state governors who command the National Guard, Border Patrol agents would maintain primary responsibility for physically guarding the border. National Guard soldiers will not perform law enforcement duties, but will help in such areas as construction, surveillance and transportation, Snow said. "

This means they are not going to give the NG's any ammo. OOPS! KBCraig beat me to it.