TexasCHLforum.com

Now...Before anyone goes off half-cocked (pardon the pun) andd says Steve is losing it...

I have a very credible co-worker, who is an NRA and CHL instructor, non-active Marine (notice I didn't say "ex") who came up to me this morning and asked how I did at the Pasadena show this weekend...

In the conversation he asked me if I spotted any ATF officers (agents, whatever) wandering arounf the show...I told him I did not see anyone exept some local L.E. roaming as customers...

He told me he saw ATF folks checking "every" purchase, either as it was happening, or reviewing 4473's from the various vendors at the Conroe show a few weeks ago...

Not that I doubt his observation, but I figured I'd float this out there for what it's worth to see what some of y'all might have seen...

And my question (comment) is this...

Realistically does the ATF have direct authority to monitor sales at the time of purchase, reviewing 4473's as they are being filled out, questioning buyers about their purchases and why, etc etc etc???

And is it in their commision to review 4473's without warrant(s)???

My cynical side says they do, but my sensible side says they shouldn't...I equate this activity to fishing without bait on the hook...But that's just my opinion...

FFL's, you know this better than I do...

Maybe this could be blown out of proportion, but we've seen activity like this from our buddies in the ATF before over the years...

Seems to me to be a little over the top from them if they are doing this...

I have no doubt that individual agents, if not the whole agency, feel that they have the imprimatur to do so. I also think they may very well be recording their findings, which would be in violation of the law.

jimlongley wrote:I have no doubt that individual agents, if not the whole agency, feel that they have the imprimatur to do so. I also think they may very well be recording their findings, which would be in violation of the law.

"I do not have to answer your questions. Get a warrant."

Anygunanywhere

stevie_d_64 wrote:Steve is losing it...

+1


But in all seriousness tag for watching how this thread plays out

I would think they would have the legal authority to check the forms at any time, as part of their inspection procedures of a dealer. I am not an expert int his field, so I do not know but am guessing.

But, I sincerely doubt they could possibly check every sale as it went down at the show. The manpower costs would be prohibitive. I could believe that there were ATF agents there and that they were looking over forms for sales for the day. I would guess one or two agents went through the show and stopped at some or most of the dealers to check the forms for the day. This would be an almost reasonable task for the agents as part of their checks on dealers selling at shows.

And any non-dealer should tell them, as mentioned above, get a warrant.

The Fed should just get rid of the ATF; there's nothing they do that the FBI couldn't do better.

For that matter, they should get rid of most federal agencies.

...He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance....

Double post

My wife and son works for the largest dealer that was at the Pasadena show and I know for a fact they were not checking any of their deals.

donald

.

I don't know about the shows, however my smith and FFL has and ongoing audit by the BATFE for the first time in eleven years. They asked him to have me come by and provide my DL and told him that the CHL was not sufficient identification.

sbb wrote:I don't know about the shows, however my smith and FFL has and ongoing audit by the BATFE for the first time in eleven years. They asked him to have me come by and provide my DL and told him that the CHL was not sufficient identification.

If your FFL did not record your DL on the 4473, it was an oversight on his part and would need to be corrected.

If he had many similar lapses, it might be the reason for the ongoing audit

And the CHL has NEVER been a recognized form of ID, although I seem to recall reading that such a bill might be filed in 2009.

Mike1951 wrote:And the CHL has NEVER been a recognized form of ID

Agreed. Although prior to 09/11/01 I regularly used my CHL for ID when flying, there was a fun factor associated with that. I was in the Washington, D.C. area and was entering a secure government installation that had a sign that you MUST have a valid driver's license to enter. Couldn't find the DL in my wallet (long story), but had my CHL. At first the guards didn't know what to think, but then I told them about FBI background check, etc., then they got all excited and started calling over their colleagues to inspect and admire my CHL. They let me into the site.

If the ATF was at the gunshow, they weren't monitoring individual purchases but rather monitoring the FFLs to be sure they were strictly following procedures. I know the guy I use for my FFL txfrs was recently audited, he runs his biz out of his house and the ATF simply showed up one day and said it was time to review his paperwork.

I have heard a couple of horror stories about the ATF at gunshows. One that is only second hand info came from a dealer I use in Ohio. At a show he was at, a customer bought a firearm and then several rows later, resold it. Observed by an ATF agent, he was arrested for being "in the business", even though there are no hard and fast rules to define this.

This is something that each one of us could encounter. Maybe we buy something and have second thoughts or maybe someone later offers a profit to sell it.

I heard another similar story but since I know nothing about it, must consider it only a rumor.