Carrying a cocked, SA, no saftery firearm

[the real deal]

Hi ya'll. I have been around firearms my whole life. Shooting them as a child, all they way up to now (31 yo). I finally submitted for the CHL. I am awaiting the processing now.

For CHL, and my only SA pistol at this time, is a S&W 9MM Sigma. I know, many of you have different opinions on S&W and the Sigma series, but that is what I have :)

The 9MM Sigma is a no safety, single action, hammerless, glock clone. The trigger is jointed, and is the only safety mechanism (if you can call it that). My question is this, should there be any concern over carrying it cocked? I am very comfortable and safe with guns, but the lack of a true safety concerns me. Previously I had a Ruger P89 9MM. It was a SA/DA with decoking safety.

I guess the root of my question is whether or not I should be concerned over the sear tripping or accidental firing while it is cocked for long periods of time. My intentions are to clear the weapong, load it, and cock it in the morning when I begin my day carrying. If this was a DA handgun, it would not be a big deal since I could chamber a round and DA the first shot.

Some of you might say, if you are more comfortable with the safety of a DA, you should buy one to carry. That may be the ultimate decision, but only if there is a concern over a no safety SA cocked weapon. Note that I am not concerned with accidently pressing the trigger. My holster, and my handling of firearms does not present that as a problem.

TIA

[HighVelocity]

I wish I was more familiar with your pistol but the best answer I can give is to call S&W customer service. They will be able to explain the safety aspects of your pistol.
I assume you've read the manual? If not SW will mail you one free.

The best safety is the one between your ears.

[couzin]

I don't have a concern at all with my Glock(s). I believe there is enough data out there that tends to show that the Glocks will not fire unless you tug on the bang switch - and only then if the trigger safety is depressed first. The other safeties will prevent drop discharges etc. Always keep it stoked with one chambered and the magazine full. Just remember to practice keeping that finger off the switch until you are dang sure whatever it is that is being targeted needs destroying. If you are not comfortable with having a round chambered - don't put one in there until you are. Practice with an UNLOADED weapon on acquisition and racking the first round to see if you can do it comfortably. If you do start carrying the gun hot - then never forget that you have one in the pipe when removing the magazine and clearing for night-night. I sure don't understand you unloading your weapon at night though - I would never do that unless there was another one that is the home defense tool. I still believe in a single weapon (or multiples of the same brand) so you don't have to fumble with remembering where safeties area, is one round up and ready, etc. Unless of course you have a great little stagecoach handy...

[the real deal]

Thanks couzin. That is the answer I was hoping for.

Yes, I do clear it and put it to bed at night. This is because I have a Remington 870 with light attachment and buck shot for late night problems. I don't wake the easiest, so I need something that doesn't have to be lined up perfectly on the target.

[txinvestigator]

Thanks couzin. That is the answer I was hoping for.

Yes, I do clear it and put it to bed at night. This is because I have a Remington 870 with light attachment and buck shot for late night problems. I don't wake the easiest, so I need something that doesn't have to be lined up perfectly on the target.

As stated, the Sigma will not fire unless the hammer is pressed.

Regarding aiming a shotgun, I hear a common myth all of the time. That is that one does not need to aim the shotgun well. That is not true at all, especially at distances encountered in a house.

I patterned my Mossberg 500 at different distances with standard 00 buck.





below is 25 yards, or 75 feet.


Most homes are not going to be over 20-30 foot distances at most, I believe. Thats only about ten yards. As you can see, even at ten yards the pattern is tight and a miss would be easy.

That said, I believe a long gun is easier to get on target due to the length of the barrell and sight radius. However, the length of the barrel can be a detriment in close quarters also. Especially negotiating corners.

I do keep an AR with a surefire light attached near the bed though.

[RPBrown]

I carry boyh a G21 and a Sigma 40 (sometimes at the same time). They have basically the same type of safties. It won't go bang unless you flip the switch.

[nemesis]

The 9MM Sigma is a no safety, single action, hammerless, glock clone.

I believe the Sigma is more correctly classified as a double-action pistol. It is hammerless and there is no way to place it into single-action mode. The trigger must be pulled through its full travel to load the striker and fire the pistol.

As stated, the Sigma will not fire unless the hammer is pressed.

I'm confused on this issue. To the best of my knowledge, the Sigma has no hammer or, at least, it is not an exposed hammer. I thought it was striker fired. In any event, a pistol in good working order should not fire though force is applied to the hammer.

[txinvestigator]

I'm confused on this issue. To the best of my knowledge, the Sigma has no hammer or, at least, it is not an exposed hammer. I thought it was striker fired. In any event, a pistol in good working order should not fire though force is applied to the hammer.

My fault. I meant to type "unless the TRIGGER is pressed"

[couzin]

In the sense of single or double actions - Glock (and real clones) are neither. The striker ('firing pin') is partially cocked by the slide when the first round is racked an then again by succeeding shots. The rest of the 'cock' is completed by the trigger as it is pulled rearward until release. I think some Glock look likes (no external hammer visible) actually have the capability of an internal cocking (like single action) and a decocker (for double action) - Walther makes one I think.

[couzin]

My fault. I meant to type "unless the TRIGGER is pressed"

We knew that...

[txinvestigator]

In the sense of single or double actions - Glock (and real clones) are neither. The striker ('firing pin') is partially cocked by the slide when the first round is racked an then again by succeeding shots. The rest of the 'cock' is completed by the trigger as it is pulled rearward until release. I think some Glock look likes (no external hammer visible) actually have the capability of an internal cocking (like single action) and a decocker (for double action) - Walther makes one I think.

The press of the trigger completes the cocking of the striker, then releases it; hence, a double action pull. (ATF also ruled Glocks DA)

The Springfield XD has the striker fully cocked. Pressing the trigger only releases the striker. That is single action.

The Walther P99 and S&W clones are striker fired. Some of them have a button to release the tension on the striker, effectively de-cocking it.

[Charles L. Cotton]

txinvestigator:

Thanks for doing the pattern/distance tests and posting the results.

Chas.

[txinvestigator]

txinvestigator:

Thanks for doing the pattern/distance tests and posting the results.

Chas.

Sure.

I did tests with the new reduced recoil from Federal. It was even tighter, but I forgot the camera. :(

[the real deal]

Thanks all!

My definition of a DA firearm is that it is capable of cocking and releasing the firing mechanism with a full trigger pull. SA is one that has to be cocked manaully to be able to fire it. Yes, the Sigma I own does in fact have the same characteristics of the glock. A spring loaded firing pin that is pulled back and latched on the sear. When the trigger is pulled, the sear is pulled down and to the rear. This causes a "slight" additional reverse of the firing pin causing some additional tension. Once the sear has dropped down far enough, the firing pin slams forward to the reciever and strickes the primer.

nemesis, I believe my understanding of DA vs. SA is accurate. The methodology behind the firing mechanism is irrelevant. Internal, external, or lack of a physical hammer doesn't impact it's classification of Single Action or Dual Action. THat is the count of the functions the trigger is capable of.

Single Action = Fire cocked weapon
Dual Action = Fire cocked weapon and cock --> fire weapon

[couzin]

...you say either, I say neither, lets call the whole thing off...

Seriously, the DA/SA/none of the above classification is probably because BATF does not have an additional category??

Really liked the shotgun research by txinvestigator though and would like to see more of that kind of stuff