TexasCHLforum.com

Greetings.

I am interested in purchasing my first firearm, specifically a personal defense weapon.

To provide a bit of background, I have limited experience in firearms, namely visiting a range a time or two with friends using everything varying from a handgun to hunting rifles/shotguns. I am familiar with the basic safety rules and some elements of firearm handling, but definitely am not even close to knowing everything I should to be a competent gun owner.

My first concern is finding a method to gain basic competency in firearm handling. I have searched for ranges in my area but they are all gun clubs and none seem to offer instruction in firearm use. I browsed through the NRA instructor database and none seem to be near my area (100 mi+ away). I would appreciate any information on other agencies that may provide such training.

My other concern is selecting the right weapon. The most I have been able to find is look for one that
1.) Fits your hands comfortably.
2.) Fits your needs
3.) In your price range.

CHL is a consideration for the future, but for the time being I think it is best to become comfortable handling a firearm without focusing on all the complications concealed carry brings.

Thank you for your time.

Welcome to the forum.

You are on the right track. Instruction and lots of practice are keys to becoming a safe, competent shooter.

If you post the county that you live in, perhaps someone will know of an instructor. Many CHL instructors are also NRA instructors and shooting coaches, though they may not advertise themselves as such.

If you can connect with an IDPA or USPSC club, you can get good informal instruction.

In my opinion (which is contested by some), it's best to start with a .22 revolver or semi-automatic pistol. The low cost of ammunition will allow you to practice enough to become proficient. The basic skills of trigger control, muzzle control, grip, sights, and stance will carry over to every other weapon.

- Jim

I live in Galveston county.

I looked at .22 semi-automatic pistols and was considering one, just for the economic factor. To practice without stressing about how much money is leaving the gun barrel would be good.

fallout wrote:I looked at .22 semi-automatic pistols and was considering one, just for the economic factor. To practice without stressing about how much money is leaving the gun barrel would be good.

Good thoughts. Plus they are just so freaking fun!

Are you going for home defense initially? If so, you can probably get a good .22 pistol and a 20Ga pump shotgun for about the same price as a good defensive pistol (in .357Mag/9mm/.45acp/...). That will keep you defended at home and practicing at the range for less ongoing $$ than any other solution. And shotgunning sports are fun, too. I enjoy that more than punching holes in paper. And I enjoy IDPA more than shotgunning sports. But none of them are boring.

For a good .22, do you know if you want revolver or pistol?
For a good shotgun, I usually suggest a Remington 870 (pump).

Of course you want them to fit you.

fallout wrote:I live in Galveston county.

This is the land of milk and honey! Tom Estep in Texas City does one-on-one coaching. PSC Range in Friendswood has organized NRA courses.

- Jim

fallout wrote:I live in Galveston county.

I looked at .22 semi-automatic pistols and was considering one, just for the economic factor. To practice without stressing about how much money is leaving the gun barrel would be good.

A .22 is a good start, and yes it's very economical (buy a brick of Remington Golden Bullets for $15; it's about 3 cents a round and pretty reliable, decently clean stuff). However, it is NOT a defensive pistol. It is a plinking/target pistol. A .22 is your very last option against a BG; even a 17HMR would be better (assuming you can aim) because of the better penetration characteristics.

I'm not discouraging you from getting one, I'm just making sure you know that you'll want a .380 at the very least, and more likely a 9mm, for personal defense, and your .22 is largely going to stay in its case and not on your hip around the house.

About shotguns as an HD weapon; yes they have a lot of stopping power and are simple point and pull weapons, but the ammunition is, quite literally, ball rounds. Double-aught buckshot contains pellets the same diameter as a 9mm handgun bullet, only these are either lead or steel shot and not designed to expand, so said shot is going to go through your BG and a few layers of drywall behind them. If you live in an apartment or with others this is not the best scenario. Nor is frangible ammunition, which won't go through two layers of insulated drywall, but won't go through the BG either. Get yourself a 9mm or .45, load it with expanders, and keep it handy. The expanding rounds, if they overpenetrate, will be more likely to lodge within a wall behind than a pellet or ball round. They also make bigger holes in the BG.

seamusTX wrote:

fallout wrote:I live in Galveston county.

This is the land of milk and honey! Tom Estep in Texas City does one-on-one coaching. PSC Range in Friendswood has organized NRA courses.

- Jim

He is one of the best one on one instructors any where in the country. Also a CHL instructor. He will get the vote in that area from an overwhelming majority of the members of this board.
LT

And if Tom is "all booked up", he will probably recommend one of his compatriots, from whom my wife and I have just begun taking some advanced instruction.

The biggest thing you can do to help yourself it get some quality training up front. It will help you with selection of a handgun, as well as give you a degree of competence and safety you probably can't get on your own, and at least not as quickly.

I highly, highly, recommend a course that will occur the first weekend of this coming March (2008) for anyone, first time shooter or not, but especially first timers. I wish I had had this course whenever I began shooting years ago.

The course is John Farnam's Basic Defensive Handgun Course. It will be held in Victoria, Texas, at Dr. Tobin's very nice private range. Course fee is $450, plus $20 for the range. You can buy a decent gun, or a lot of ammo for that, but the training effect will last you much, much longer.

The basic course is usually taught by Vicki Farnam, John's wife, and she knows her stuff. You will get an outstanding grounding in administrative and tactical handling of the handgun. You will be able to handle any autoloader with their methods, and you will get to shoot a variety of handguns. "Administrative" meaning loading, unloading, checking status, and otherwise handling the firearm when not "under attack." Loading and unloading may sound simple, but there are ways to do it that make it much safer and reduce the chance for error, and John (and Vicki) has thought through them very well. "Tactical" meaning how to handle yourself and your gun if you need to defend yourself. Drawing, moving, shooting ACCURATELY, malfunction drills, tactical reloading, holstering, shooting at night with and without flashlight. Again, well-thought out methods that increase your effectiveness and efficiency.

John and Vicki also cover, in excellent depth, the legal and practical bases for use of force, how to avoid those situations if possible, if not how to position yourself as the "armed victim" and not the "crazy guy with a gun," how to deal with the cops afterward, what you need to know as say, and NOT say.

You will be vastly more competent and confident after that weekend. Again, I wish I had run across this years ago.

I wrote up my experiences with the Basic and Advanced courses in the Advanced Training section of this forum -- here's the links:

http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... f=8&t=7450 (basic)
http://www.texasshooting.com/TexasCHL_F ... f=8&t=7479 (advanced)

Farnam's website is http://defense-training.com

You'll find a list of what to bring to John's courses. If you don't yet have a decent self-defense pistol/magazines and holster and all the other accoutrements, DON"T let that put you off. I can't make promises for Dr. Tobin, but he has been very helpful in the past in arranging the loaning and borrowing of guns. He also has sources for ammo, you could probably arrange through him to have a bunch waiting for you when you get there. I wish I were going again this year, but other (firefighter) training conflicts.

If you are at all interested in this, you can contact Farnam thru the email at his website (he is very good about email replies) or you can PM me, and I will be happy to put you in touch with Dr Tobin (which is what John will do). Dr. Tobin has been sponsoring courses by Farnam and others for a number of years, and is no slouch when it comes to defensive tactics and shooting himself.

If you do want to go ahead and grab a pistol now, I would add one more criterion to your list (and put it first): reliability. It must go bang every time. You cannot go far wrong with a Glock. I like some other pistols better, but it is a solid, reliable defensive handgun and can be had for not exhorbitant amounts of money.

Don't hesitate to PM with any questions.

Good luck.

elb

The ruger Mark III is an outstanding gun to start with. I'd wager many of the members here started in the .22 caliber. It also happens to be extremely accurate, cheap to shoot, and fun.

For .22 semi-auto, the Browning Buckmark is also a worthy choice.

Welcome to the forum. I'm going to shy away from recommending a specific firearm just yet. I will tell you the purchasing criteria you've listed are a good start. More important than picking a firearm, IMHO, is to find someone near you offering competent training.

When I read your post a couple days ago, you mentioned that you'd looked into clubs and instructors but no one was near you. Then I saw Galveston County and was just about floored. As mentioned, you really couldn't be in a better spot. SeamusTX already gave you one of the first names that would have come to mind in Galveston County and you can't go wrong by joining PSC either. I keep meaning to do that myself but the job keeps me away.

ELB posted a great reference to John Farnam. Not cheaper by any stretch but certainly local, there is also Brian Hoffner. (http://www.hoffners.com) Brian is a 25-year veteran of a large local agency, an experienced and nationally recognized trainer as well as a friend and former student of John Farnam. I've trained in both their programs and highly recommend attending training for both if you can afford it. While the fundamentals are the same, there significant differences in the programs. IMHO, the differences are worth exploring so that you can come to your own conclusions.

My next recommendation is use the search function on this board. You may find yourself suffering from information overload because there are some well versed, well trained and thoroughly experienced instructors/shooters providing a great deal of content on this forum. There are even a few people who have at some point in their lives been professional gunmen in law enforcment, military and/or personal protection capacities. They won't go out of their way to tell you who they are or what they do but, you'll figure it out as you read their posts.

Buying a .22 with which to practice fundamental marksmanship is highly recommended. Another option might be to buy a .22 conversion kit (if available) once you've chosen a handgun. My personal method skips that expense in favor of a lot of dry-fire practice that is supplemented with live-fire application. A long time ago, I learned a trick from an IPSC GrandMaster that uses masking tape, a pencil and a Post-It. Without getting too detailed here, the pencil becomes your "bullet" and the mark it makes on paper relative to a calibrated point of impact can be used to highlight problems without firing a live round.

Another option is Airsoft pistols used on paper targets. Many airsoft pistols now operate in a manner identical to their lead firing counterparts and fit in the same holsters. The 6mm BBs are reusable and so is the gas relatively speaking. You can shoot indoors and the cost of a quality airsoft pistol is usually a little cheaper than that of even a basic .22 caliber pistol. It's just a thought. With FX and other paint based systems being prohibitively expensive, many trainers are turning to airsoft as a tool for force on force training which is the only practical way to simulate the dynamics of a gunfight.

Liko81 wrote:

fallout wrote:I live in Galveston county.

I looked at .22 semi-automatic pistols and was considering one, just for the economic factor. To practice without stressing about how much money is leaving the gun barrel would be good.

A .22 is a good start, and yes it's very economical (buy a brick of Remington Golden Bullets for $15; it's about 3 cents a round and pretty reliable, decently clean stuff). However, it is NOT a defensive pistol. It is a plinking/target pistol. A .22 is your very last option against a BG; even a 17HMR would be better (assuming you can aim) because of the better penetration characteristics.

I'm not discouraging you from getting one, I'm just making sure you know that you'll want a .380 at the very least, and more likely a 9mm, for personal defense, and your .22 is largely going to stay in its case and not on your hip around the house.

About shotguns as an HD weapon; yes they have a lot of stopping power and are simple point and pull weapons, but the ammunition is, quite literally, ball rounds. Double-aught buckshot contains pellets the same diameter as a 9mm handgun bullet, only these are either lead or steel shot and not designed to expand, so said shot is going to go through your BG and a few layers of drywall behind them. If you live in an apartment or with others this is not the best scenario. Nor is frangible ammunition, which won't go through two layers of insulated drywall, but won't go through the BG either. Get yourself a 9mm or .45, load it with expanders, and keep it handy. The expanding rounds, if they overpenetrate, will be more likely to lodge within a wall behind than a pellet or ball round. They also make bigger holes in the BG.

agreed that it is not a defense round, but I read the Ruger MK is very popular with assasins, allegedly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_MK_II

lawrnk wrote:

Liko81 wrote:agreed that it is not a defense round, but I read the Ruger MK is very popular with assasins, allegedly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_MK_II

I *might* be able to believe that; silencers work better on smaller rounds, so a .22 handgun would be very quiet. It is also deadly enough with a shot in the eye socket or back of the throat. I'd still use a silenced 9mm if I were a hitman.

Anyway, both the Ruger .22 pistols and the Browning Buckmarks are excellent plinkers. My Buckmark has had a couple of jams (one failure to chamber and one failure to eject in 200 rounds) and .22 is not an incredibly reliable cartridge (the GBs are pretty good; standard Remington "target" loads gave me about 3 duds and a lot of squibs while I've not yet had one with GBs), but for pure cheap fun factor they can't be beat, and a .22 will get you used to gun handling. I still say get a 9mm or larger and become proficient with it if you feel you need a defensive weapon.

Liko81 wrote:

lawrnk wrote:

Liko81 wrote:agreed that it is not a defense round, but I read the Ruger MK is very popular with assasins, allegedly.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_MK_II

I *might* be able to believe that; silencers work better on smaller rounds, so a .22 handgun would be very quiet. It is also deadly enough with a shot in the eye socket or back of the throat. I'd still use a silenced 9mm if I were a hitman.

Anyway, both the Ruger .22 pistols and the Browning Buckmarks are excellent plinkers. My Buckmark has had a couple of jams (one failure to chamber and one failure to eject in 200 rounds) and .22 is not an incredibly reliable cartridge (the GBs are pretty good; standard Remington "target" loads gave me about 3 duds and a lot of squibs while I've not yet had one with GBs), but for pure cheap fun factor they can't be beat, and a .22 will get you used to gun handling. I still say get a 9mm or larger and become proficient with it if you feel you need a defensive weapon.

Laugh all you want, or you could get informed.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rlz= ... hit+man%22