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Saw this on the news last night. Could be a media slant, but from what I gathered a cop tazered a grandma because she would not stand up and turn around to get cuffed.

When ordered to stand up and turn around to get cuffed, she peacefully remained seated (saw it on video) and told the LEO should wanted to talk to her husband.

Cop repeats his instructions while pulling out tazer. She says same thing, and he lights her up.

She goes down, and he lights her up 4 more times, though she isn't even fighting back.

Is this police brutality or am I missing somehting to the story?

Also - what do you guys do in this situation - if you are the one getting lit up?

-nick

I like the idea of LEOs having a tazer as an option prior to going to a firearm. They are less lethal, but based on how incapacitated you are after being hit with one I would not take it lightly. Someone (non LEO) coming at me with a tazer - I would have to assume that responding with deadly force would be warranted due to me not being able to defend myself at all if they get that shot off.

Now, with that said, I would like to see tazers used before more deadly force in order to subdue suspects that need subduing. To use a tazer to enforce compliance in a situation like this just ain't right (assuming the facts as presented here).

the dept i recently left had tazers. we went to the new use of force policy where there aren't really levels, or steps, but tools available. we could deploy a tazer at any sign of uncooperation. i'm more of a hands on type of guy so i never even used pepper spray that much. some guys tazer and spray every one.

if i told someone to do something and they didn't, i'd probably force them to do it by some means. if a tazer works, then the job is done.

and don't let the terms "grandma" or "grandpa" fool you. i arrested a 74 y/o "grandpa" for murder. another guy in my dept. arrested a 93 y/o "grandma" for aggrevated assault.

i forcibly removed and arrested a 68 y/o "grandma" from her vehicle when she refused to sign her citation.

people don't cooperate, you gotta do something. what would have been better, the cop doing an armbar on this lady and slamming her to the ground, or tazering her until she decided it was in her best interest to comply?

I saw the video and initially felt that the officer went a little far. That said, I was not there and do not know the details that surround the incident. Was there a knife on the ground she was threatening to grab? Was she a physical threat? Maybe the officer felt that she was going to hurt him?
I worked in a Maximum security prison setting in Texas for seven years and most of the time.....you can guide someone by the back of the arm and get them to comply. A firm grip and steady tone is a good weapon.
I realize this is not always the case and maybe it wasn't with the lady in the video. I just have mixed emotions about any assault on a citizen because a macho thinks they didn't obey their command quickly enough. I worked with guys that did just that and it never impressed me.
The Officer knows what is right and hopefully he made a decision that was not fueled by macho crap, but a level headed attempt to maintain officer and public safety.
Guys......I am not anti-cop.....but I am anti-abuse of power.

Chris wrote: i forcibly removed and arrested a 68 y/o "grandma" from her vehicle when she refused to sign her citation.

I can totally see the reasoning for this. Don't get me wrong, but I must ask why is force warranted when there is no show of force at all from the person?

Half of me is playing devil's advocate, but PD is payed by taxpayers dollars and works FOR the citizens. It seems like there would be a different approach just for "refusal to sign."

Maybe I'm crazy but if I can get busted up by a cop just for not signing a ticket - something is wrong with things as they are.

While compliance with a peace officer is important, it seems like there is too much loose ground where I can get slammed about just for saying something the cop didn't like - under the guise of "refusal to comply" or some other justifiable reason for throwing around a tax paying citizen.

-nick

PS - these ARE NOT fighting words, i respect all the LEOs on this board, including Chris. These are just my honest opinions.

gigag04 wrote:

Chris wrote: i forcibly removed and arrested a 68 y/o "grandma" from her vehicle when she refused to sign her citation.

I can totally see the reasoning for this. Don't get me wrong, but I must ask why is force warranted when there is no show of force at all from the person?

Half of me is playing devil's advocate, but PD is payed by taxpayers dollars and works FOR the citizens. It seems like there would be a different approach just for "refusal to sign."

Maybe I'm crazy but if I can get busted up by a cop just for not signing a ticket - something is wrong with things as they are.

While compliance with a peace officer is important, it seems like there is too much loose ground where I can get slammed about just for saying something the cop didn't like - under the guise of "refusal to comply" or some other justifiable reason for throwing around a tax paying citizen.

-nick

PS - these ARE NOT fighting words, i respect all the LEOs on this board, including Chris. These are just my honest opinions.

under the law, you must be afforded the opportunity to sign a promise to appear for any charge of speeding or possession of an open container. in the majority of courts, the comlaint is not valid if the person refuses to sign the citation. the signature is nothing more than a promise to appear; in other words, a personal recognizance bond. if you don't sign it, you are not promising anything.

i have seen a few courts that will allow the officer to just write refused, but most look at it as something that's required. all the courts i have worked under required a signature. if no signature, they were arrested.

there are plenty of agencies who use this the wrong way. instead of getting consent to search, they will stop for a traffic violation other than speeding and arrest you, search the car, and go about their business. there was a bill a year or two ago that perry vetoed that required police to have a policy that prohibited this. many already do. i like having the option to arrest though. at a class C offense domestic when neither will leave, i like being able to take one or both to prevent further violence. also, if someone is lacking proper identification, or they need further investigating, the time from an arrest can be used to find that. i've found a lot of dangerous felons doing this. i have never stopped someone and arrested them just to search the car; either i get consent, or i get a warrant. i had an agency try to get me to perform a stop like that for them and i refused. it caused a little bit of animosity between us, but i like to think i'm a pretty ethical person. this isn't generally something that happens to joe citizen unless they flat out refuse to sign. most who go to jail after refusing were overly informed of the consequences of their actions.

making people comply is part of the job. i prefer to get physical over other means of force, because i feel like i can control them faster. relying on tools requires reliance on those tools. and sometimes the tools fail leaving you somewhat stuck. but on the other hand, if i can avoid touching someone, i will at all costs. i think my personal skills are pretty good. i recently talked a guy out of his 18 wheeler where he was leaving to kill 2 police officers.

and you don't have to disclaim your posts as "not fighting words." i'm not that defensive about having police officer status. i'm chris first, cop second.

i forcibly removed and arrested a 68 y/o "grandma" from her vehicle when she refused to sign her citation.

I am not sure that Jefferson, Washington and others had that in mind.

graysoncountyffl wrote:

i forcibly removed and arrested a 68 y/o "grandma" from her vehicle when she refused to sign her citation.

I am not sure that Jefferson, Washington and others had that in mind.

choices. they had choices in mind. she consequently made a bad one.

Chris wrote:

graysoncountyffl wrote:

i forcibly removed and arrested a 68 y/o "grandma" from her vehicle when she refused to sign her citation.

I am not sure that Jefferson, Washington and others had that in mind.

choices. they had choices in mind. she consequently made a bad one.

Let's talk about choices.

You knew her name. Her DL number. Her address. You knew where to find her. She was irate over getting a ticket, and refused to sign.

You had no choice except to forcibly remove her from her car and take her into custody?

Just for the record, I'm in a similar line of work. When I write someone up and he doesn't wish to comply, the stakes are a bit higher: by "losing", we could lose control of a unit, or an entire institution.

But you know what? There is such a thing as "deferred settlement". We can hunt the offender down and settle things when he's not not showing off for his boys. We know where he lives. And we'll take care of it quietly, without resistance, just by removing the "arrest" from the emotion of the original incident. I'm just a stupid ol' CO, but to me it makes sense to take two (other) officers by the offender's house later, and talking a little calm sense to the miscreant, rather than pushing the issue and winding up fighting 1,800 against 20.

I guess I'm a little old-fashioned that way. I prefer to let people decide to willingly go to jail, instead of asserting my AU-THOR-I-TAY!

I can't imagine a situation that requires forcibly arresting a 68 year old woman for a (sober) traffic violation, unless "contempt of cop" has become an arrestable offense.

Choices: we all have them. Who made a bad one?

Kevin

yep. KBCraig nailed it.

If Grandma refuses to sign, even after being threatened with jail, what makes you think she will submit later? What difference does it make if the officer knows who she is or where she lives?

txinvestigator wrote:If Grandma refuses to sign, even after being threatened with jail, what makes you think she will submit later? What difference does it make if the officer knows who she is or where she lives?

Do you honestly mean to tell me that in your years of law enforcement experience, you never saw people with elevated, irrational emotions, who would later calm down after the situation de-escalated? Or who wouldn't respond better to a different officer, or a family member?

There are always choices. And using force to remove an elderly lady from her car over a Class C traffic misdemeanor seems like a poor choice.

Kevin

Let's bring this back to tazer-ing granny.

Would that really hold up?? Just to get compliance? Maybe it's me, but it seems kind of unfair (now I know life isn't fair, but usually the uneven stakes are better hidden). It seems like it makes LEO's a super-class that can bully the common folk to do whatever they want.

gigag04 wrote:Let's bring this back to tazer-ing granny.

Would that really hold up?? Just to get compliance? Maybe it's me, but it seems kind of unfair (now I know life isn't fair, but usually the uneven stakes are better hidden). It seems like it makes LEO's a super-class that can bully the common folk to do whatever they want.

so if granny sits down and refuses to do what you request, you give her a pass? what about a 30 year old male dope head? where does that fall into the fair and impartial treatment?

i've written a 92 year old her very first ticket. age shouldn't have anything to do with it. a 92 year old female in her buick running a stop sign is just as dangerous as a 16 year old in a mustang doing it. the logic i see thus far is that granny gets a pass based on age. that's not providing fair and impartial treatement.

if granny commits a violation that warrants a trip to jail, she goes to jail. it's not my job to determine who is innocent or guilty. it is my job to make sure i treat people fairly.

KBCraig wrote:
Just for the record, I'm in a similar line of work. When I write someone up and he doesn't wish to comply, the stakes are a bit higher: by "losing", we could lose control of a unit, or an entire institution.

street work and jail assignments aren't even a close comparison. i've done both. the approach to problems are handled entirely different. if i had the peace of mind to know that person was not armed, i'd have no problem waiting a while. a lot of dead cops who made that mistake.