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Ain't it supposed to be legal to carry a long gun?
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:05 am
by frankie_the_yankee
Check out this article in yesterday's Austin-American Statesman.
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/n ... ntown.html
911 report of possible gunman prompts search near Capitol
Police do not find alleged armed man.
By Tony Plohetski
AMERICAN-STATESMAN STAFF
Thursday, November 08, 2007
A 911 report that a man, dressed in all black and possibly armed with a rifle, was atop a downtown parking garage Wednesday prompted an hour long search and led officials to temporarily lock down the Texas Capitol and several nearby state offices.
Austin police and troopers with the Texas Department of Public Safety did not find the man but asked that anyone who might know his identity notify authorities.
Still, the report and search prompted a stream of concerned e-mails and phone calls among downtown workers.
A few hours later, police got a second report that a man wearing all black was entering a garage blocks away. They searched the area but did not find a man matching the description or any weapons.
Austin police spokesman Joe Muñoz said a woman, peering down from a taller building, called 911 about 8:30 a.m. and said the man was on top of a garage near 13th and Guadalupe streets. The woman reported that he appeared to be armed with a rifle, although she could not be sure it was a weapon.
Police had not released an audio recording of the woman's 911 call Wednesday afternoon.
Officers searched the five-story garage. Police found a car on the top level and identified the owner, who they said was not the subject of the 911 call. Pilots with STAR Flight also searched the area.
"We felt her information was credible enough to search the area" and look for the man, Muñoz said. "We took no chances, and the proper precautions were made."
Outside First United Methodist Church at 1201 Lavaca St., which owns the garage, an officer rushed parents who were dropping off their children for preschool inside.
Darcy Hamre, who was taking her daughter to the preschool, said that children were moved to an interior room and that church staff locked the exterior doors.
"Obviously, I was worried about my child," Hamre said. "You never know with these things. ... Basically, my intent was to just get my daughter and go home."
The church closed its preschool for the day.
Public Safety officials e-mailed all state employees in the Capitol about the incident, advising them to stay indoors, which is part of their procedure for handling such incidents.
Police said they got the second report of a suspicious person about 11 a.m. The 911 caller reported seeing a man wearing all black walking up a ramp to the parking garage at 504 Lavaca St.
It's legal to wear all black as far as I know.
It's legal to carry a long gun in TX as far as I know.
So if someone calls the cops and says, "There's a man wearing all black that
I think (but am not sure) might be carrying a rifle.", on what grounds do the cops mobilize a SWAT team, choppers, etc.?
This sounds like something that opencarry.org should get involved in.
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:34 am
by 135boomer
I will say only this. After 24 years of active duty military service, including Vietnam, I danged sure would have checked him out. There are plenty of nut cases out there, and always the possibility of a real terrorist. There is nothing wrong with a LEO asking him what he is up to.
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:36 am
by frankie_the_yankee
135boomer wrote:I will say only this. After 24 years of active duty military service, including Vietnam, I danged sure would have checked him out. There are plenty of nut cases out there, and always the possibility of a real terrorist. There is nothing wrong with a LEO asking him what he is up to.
So would I.
My point was/is that even though something is technically legal, if so few people normally do it that it looks abnormal, then people should EXPECT to be checked out.
50 or 100 years ago it was probably common for people to carry long guns openly, and it wouldn't raised an eyebrow.
These days, if someone is carrying a long gun in the city and has peaceful intent, the gun will be covered in some kind of carrying case. If it's not, reasonable suspicions may be raised.
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:32 am
by Lucky45
135boomer wrote: There are plenty of nut cases out there, and always the possibility of a real terrorist. There is nothing wrong with a LEO asking him what he is up to.
This is the statement that ticks me off when it comes to the legality of an issue in society. Most of the time, it stems from the prejudiced profiling by some people in public and therefore the trampling of the civil rights of some repeatedly.
If there are guys with rifles/ shotguns on rack in their truck and dressed in camo, then some people just drool and say, "Aaaahhh, they must be heading out west to go hunting, I wonder what caliber that rifle is, hmmmm,must be 7.62, 30.06, NATO. I wish i could go."
But another set of guys come out a gun store/ apartment with rifle/guns, then the whole scenario changes. What are these "people" up to? There isn't any hunting land downtown?? Since when were deer running around Main Street. I'm calling 911 because they look suspicious and
there is nothing wrong with a LEO asking him what he is up to.
In both cases everyone without personal scrutiny has a legal right to possess the firearms, but the response is different. Reason why IN MY OPINION is YOUR PERSONAL PREJUDICES. Swallow it however you like.
If people were judged by their actions in this society, then we would alot further along in life.
P.S. So did this woman who called 911 have any prejudices while she was looking down from a high rise to the top of a 5 story garage. Where she happened to see a man covered in all black armed with a rifle. Maybe or maybe not!!!!
But I know one thing and you can think for yourself. She remained on the phone with 911 until LEO arrived at the garage to investigate. I know she did not break eye contact with the suspect vehicle since she was not in danger. So this was an open and shut case, right??? Now look at the report again.
Police found a car on the top level and identified the owner, who they said was not the subject of the 911 call.
This is "Mr. Owner's" car, it couldn't have been him; let's keep searching for "the man covered in all black." I don't know about you guys, but I can decipher Japanese codes.
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:44 am
by meirvin
Hello my name is Mike
I wear all black
I am a wedding photographer
I have been known to park in parking garages at some of the city's most high end buildings
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:48 am
by CompVest
The whole story sounds like a case of over-reaction.
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:30 am
by txinvestigator
Yes, there is over-reaction, but it is in this thread.
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:44 am
by seamusTX
There is a standard called "reasonable suspicion" for behavior that is not on its face illegal, but warrants looking into.
Lunatics have taken positions with a rifle and shot people in Austin and other places, so the possibility of such a thing is not imaginary.
Here's another example: It's perfectly legal to wear a wig or sunglasses, to sit on a park bench, or to take photos in a public place. But if someone is doing all those things at the same time, and taking photos of kids in a park, I sure hope someone looks into it.
- Jim
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:13 am
by frankie_the_yankee
seamusTX wrote:There is a standard called "reasonable suspicion" for behavior that is not on its face illegal, but warrants looking into.
Lunatics have taken positions with a rifle and shot people in Austin and other places, so the possibility of such a thing is not imaginary.
Here's another example: It's perfectly legal to wear a wig or sunglasses, to sit on a park bench, or to take photos in a public place. But if someone is doing all those things at the same time, and taking photos of kids in a park, I sure hope someone looks into it.
- Jim
You nailed it.
My whole point was to illustrate that while "exercising your rights" it is possible to look far enough "out there" that people become concerned, with the result being that you get checked out by the cops.
Think of OC in places where it is technically legal but hardly anyone ever does it, for instance.
When you come right down to it, this was an OC incident, just with the subject carrying a rifle instead of a pistol. (That is, if he was carrying anything at all. The 911 caller could never quite be sure of that.)
There are many jurisdictions where it is ostensibly legal to OC a rifle or shotgun. But try it and see what happens.
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 8:57 am
by txinvestigator
seamusTX wrote:There is a standard called "reasonable suspicion" for behavior that is not on its face illegal, but warrants looking into.
Lunatics have taken positions with a rifle and shot people in Austin and other places, so the possibility of such a thing is not imaginary.
Here's another example: It's perfectly legal to wear a wig or sunglasses, to sit on a park bench, or to take photos in a public place. But if someone is doing all those things at the same time, and taking photos of kids in a park, I sure hope someone looks into it.
- Jim
Ahh, rational thought.
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 9:02 am
by Keith B
txinvestigator wrote:seamusTX wrote:There is a standard called "reasonable suspicion" for behavior that is not on its face illegal, but warrants looking into.
Lunatics have taken positions with a rifle and shot people in Austin and other places, so the possibility of such a thing is not imaginary.
Here's another example: It's perfectly legal to wear a wig or sunglasses, to sit on a park bench, or to take photos in a public place. But if someone is doing all those things at the same time, and taking photos of kids in a park, I sure hope someone looks into it.
- Jim
Ahh, rational thought.
Heaven forbid we get THAT started here!!
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 10:49 am
by DMG
Rational thought! This thread is ruined! Close it down!
David G.
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:10 pm
by Lucky45
DMG wrote:Rational thought! This thread is ruined! Close it down!
David G.
Since when do we start closing down threads because others have different opinions???
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:25 pm
by txinvestigator
Lucky45 wrote:DMG wrote:Rational thought! This thread is ruined! Close it down!
David G.
Since when do we start closing down threads because others have different opinions???
I think he was being funny. Admit it, you had a chuckle.
Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 3:51 pm
by KBCraig
I have no problem with police "checking out" something out of the ordinary. That's perfectly reasonable.
What is not reasonable is locking down the capital, state office buildings, and all the area churches, pre-schools, and daycare centers, just because someone thought she thought might have, possibly, but isn't sure, something that looked sort of like a gun.