TexasCHLforum.com

Posted: **Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:41 pm**

Do you carry any Les lethal options? I have to use a walking cane and it is solid wood built out of one piece of heavy wood. I also carry SABRE Pepper Gel. I carry a Benchmade OTF knife. After all of that then the last thing I want to do is draw and have to use my sidearm.

I was wondering what you carry that might help keep you from deadly force?

Posted: **Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:58 pm**

carlson1 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:41 pm Do you carry any Les lethal options? I have to use a walking cane and it is solid wood built out of one piece of heavy wood. I also carry SABRE Pepper Gel. I carry a Benchmade OTF knife. After all of that then the last thing I want to do is draw and have to use my sidearm.

I was wondering what you carry that might help keep you from deadly force?

By the time you go through the first two options, a knife wielding attacker will have gutted you. JMHO

Posted: **Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:01 pm**

I also carry a cane but mine is aluminum. Lightweight but pretty strong. I carry a small knife . Botha those are for unarmed attacks.

Posted: **Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:12 pm**

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:58 pm
carlson1 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:41 pm Do you carry any Les lethal options? I have to use a walking cane and it is solid wood built out of one piece of heavy wood. I also carry SABRE Pepper Gel. I carry a Benchmade OTF knife. After all of that then the last thing I want to do is draw and have to use my sidearm.

I was wondering what you carry that might help keep you from deadly force?
By the time you go through the first two options, a knife wielding attacker will have gutted you. JMHO

If he is knife wielding then I have only one option. Attacks are not always deadly and they do not always cause for deadly force. You missed the question I guess.

Posted: **Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:18 pm**

I do carry both a knife and some OC spray besides my gun, but the knife is definitely NOT for self defense. It’s a tool. I’ve considered some kind of striking devise like a collapsible baton or something, but honestly, I have no intention of getting physical with anyone. I’m too old for that kind of nonsense. So it’s either the pepper spray or the gun. If I’m in a knife fight, I’m already losing. I only considered a collapsing baton because it would allow me to keep a little bit of standoff, but I just don’t want to be that close to an opponent if I can at all help it.

When I’m in a non permissive environment where a gun is a no go (on airplanes and such), I also have a shillelagh/cane that goes perfectly with my Santa look.

Posted: **Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:20 pm**

carlson1 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:12 pm
03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑
carlson1 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:41 pm Do you carry any Les lethal options? I have to use a walking cane and it is solid wood built out of one piece of heavy wood. I also carry SABRE Pepper Gel. I carry a Benchmade OTF knife. After all of that then the last thing I want to do is draw and have to use my sidearm.

I was wondering what you carry that might help keep you from deadly force?
By the time you go through the first two options, a knife wielding attacker will have gutted you. JMHO
If he is knife wielding then I have only one option. Attacks are not always deadly and they do not always cause for deadly force. You missed the question I guess.

Oh no, I saw the question. Let's be honest here. I have read more than one post from you and many others on this forum about suffering from ill health and weakened conditions. Not a one of you is capable of standing toe to toe with some 18-40 year old attacker while you try to stab or spray your way out of it. I am not either. You can be killed by one well placed punch. Messing around with "less lethal" options is just silly. You are not being close to realistic. Some young thug decides to attack you, you better get serious real fast! And your health condition and that cane is not gonna do it.

Posted: **Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:59 pm**

BigGuy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:55 pm
03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:20 pm
carlson1 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:12 pm
03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑
carlson1 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:41 pm Do you carry any Les lethal options? I have to use a walking cane and it is solid wood built out of one piece of heavy wood. I also carry SABRE Pepper Gel. I carry a Benchmade OTF knife. After all of that then the last thing I want to do is draw and have to use my sidearm.

I was wondering what you carry that might help keep you from deadly force?
By the time you go through the first two options, a knife wielding attacker will have gutted you. JMHO
If he is knife wielding then I have only one option. Attacks are not always deadly and they do not always cause for deadly force. You missed the question I guess.
Oh no, I saw the question. Let's be honest here. I have read more than one post from you and many others on this forum about suffering from ill health and weakened conditions. Not a one of you is capable of standing toe to toe with some 18-40 year old attacker while you try to stab or spray your way out of it. I am not either. You can be killed by one well placed punch. Messing around with "less lethal" options is just silly. You are not being close to realistic. Some young thug decides to attack you, you better get serious real fast! And your health condition and that cane is not gonna do it.
So much truth here. My health is going downhill fast. I just needed to hang in until November when I could retire with full SS benefits. I'm half the man I was last year. I'm Security at an ER. So far it's mostly a concierge job. Mostly I help hut people by providing a wheel chair and direct them to the complementary refreshments. I keep a cartoon playing on a TV in the far waiting room and make sure parents know of it. It's been such a rewarding job. Most of my interactions have been positive. There have been several very positive posts about me on the ER's FB page.
Prior to that, I'd worked Corrections, and Security at a public library overrun by the homeless. Many of the folks I ran across at the library I'd been watching at the jail.

I was told many years ago by a guy 30 years older than me. Getting old sucks but it sure beats the alternative.

Posted: **Sat Jun 04, 2022 10:13 pm**

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:20 pm
carlson1 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 8:12 pm
03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑
carlson1 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:41 pm Do you carry any Les lethal options? I have to use a walking cane and it is solid wood built out of one piece of heavy wood. I also carry SABRE Pepper Gel. I carry a Benchmade OTF knife. After all of that then the last thing I want to do is draw and have to use my sidearm.

I was wondering what you carry that might help keep you from deadly force?
By the time you go through the first two options, a knife wielding attacker will have gutted you. JMHO
If he is knife wielding then I have only one option. Attacks are not always deadly and they do not always cause for deadly force. You missed the question I guess.
Oh no, I saw the question. Let's be honest here. I have read more than one post from you and many others on this forum about suffering from ill health and weakened conditions. Not a one of you is capable of standing toe to toe with some 18-40 year old attacker while you try to stab or spray your way out of it. I am not either. You can be killed by one well placed punch. Messing around with "less lethal" options is just silly. You are not being close to realistic. Some young thug decides to attack you, you better get serious real fast! And your health condition and that cane is not gonna do it.

I just want to point out that a knife attack and firearm attack are going to legally be viewed the same. Also on the cane; having gone through TDCJ and Armed Security, certain strikes with that cane will be considered to cause serious bodily injury or death. Which lands you in the same legal boat as shooting them. Just wanted to point out, that of the three options you list than only one is truly going to be less than lethal legally. People are going to carry what they want, and more power to them (and you). Just want people to have an idea of what a prosecutor could make of something if they chose.

I do agree with TAM. I'm overweight, out of shape, have pins and plates, nerve damage, and a messed up disc in my back. I'm not going to be able to engage in hand to hand with a, statistically speaking, 16-25 year old male. I'd advise anyone that still thinks they have what it takes. Go to a boxing, mma, or bjj place and see how you do with someone there. Most thugs aren't going to be trained, so you don't have to win. But it will give a you an idea of how far from that strapping 20 year old that could throw hay bales all day you've gotten. Or take the ECQC class from Shivworks, or something similar.

Posted: **Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:17 am**

Less than lethal is my fists. After that comes the gun. I'm 53 and work construction. I can still fight.

Posted: **Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:39 am**

cirus wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:17 am Less than lethal is my fists. After that comes the gun. I'm 53 and work construction. I can still fight.

I remember 53. I was still feeling pretty good. I am 61 now. I spent my whole life doing hard manual work for a living. Spent 35 years doing HVAC work. I kid you not. The last five years it seems like every on the job injury I ever took is coming back to haunt me. Back, neck, elbows. My weakest area is my knees. I suppose it is from all the time spent crawling around on rafters doing new construction and going up and down ladders year after year. My knees hurt me so bad it is hard just standing up sometimes. It doesn't help any that I have put on 65 pounds over the past four years and started smoking again. I'm not fist fighting anybody. I also don't go looking for trouble either. I am only 5'10" and weigh 315 pounds. My biggest problem is stamina. I am strong as a bull but only for about 60 seconds at a time...LOL. I still have friends who I have worked with for 30-35 years and not all of them have health issues. Some of it is genetics but I am sure much of it has to do with life style choices. The guys I have met over the years in construction trades who were heavy drinkers or drug abusers have all either gone completely sober or died.

Just curious. What kind of construction work do you do and what area are you living in?

Posted: **Sun Jun 05, 2022 6:54 am**

03Lightningrocks wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 3:39 am
cirus wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 1:17 am Less than lethal is my fists. After that comes the gun. I'm 53 and work construction. I can still fight.
I remember 53. I was still feeling pretty good. I am 61 now. I spent my whole life doing hard manual work for a living. Spent 35 years doing HVAC work. I kid you not. The last five years it seems like every on the job injury I ever took is coming back to haunt me. Back, neck, elbows. My weakest area is my knees. I suppose it is from all the time spent crawling around on rafters doing new construction and going up and down ladders year after year. My knees hurt me so bad it is hard just standing up sometimes. It doesn't help any that I have put on 65 pounds over the past four years and started smoking again. I'm not fist fighting anybody. I also don't go looking for trouble either. I am only 5'10" and weigh 315 pounds. My biggest problem is stamina. I am strong as a bull but only for about 60 seconds at a time...LOL. I still have friends who I have worked with for 30-35 years and not all of them have health issues. Some of it is genetics but I am sure much of it has to do with life style choices. The guys I have met over the years in construction trades who were heavy drinkers or drug abusers have all either gone completely sober or died.

Just curious. What kind of construction work do you do and what area are you living in?

I'm a electrical contractor up on the Red River northeast of the metroplex. My son works with me and he has his Oklahoma license so we spend about half our time across the river. I know what you mean about age. 53 is alot different than 40 was. I'm about 6'1" and 210 and watch my weight.
About 10 -15 years ago I was up around 255-260 and my doctor said loose some weight or get on blood pressure medicine. I lost weight.

Posted: **Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:15 am**

I carry POM pocket clip spray. Covid has made people edgy, easily angered. I've seen people rage at an autistic grocery clerk and been followed from the parking lot to the store by a guy that took umbrage to my driving on the correct side of the road in a parking lot while he tried to hit me head on (I suppose he was just not paying attention and blamed me for the near crash).

If an idiot is threatening me without a visible weapon, it's nice to have a non lethal option.

Posted: **Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:41 am**

The Annoyed Man wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 9:18 pm I do carry both a knife and some OC spray besides my gun, but the knife is definitely NOT for self defense. It’s a tool. I’ve considered some kind of striking devise like a collapsible baton or something, but honestly, I have no intention of getting physical with anyone. I’m too old for that kind of nonsense. So it’s either the pepper spray or the gun. If I’m in a knife fight, I’m already losing. I only considered a collapsing baton because it would allow me to keep a little bit of standoff, but I just don’t want to be that close to an opponent if I can at all help it.

When I’m in a non permissive environment where a gun is a no go (on airplanes and such), I also have a shillelagh/cane that goes perfectly with my Santa look.

I have to agree. I carried tactical blades for years but found that the blade is best used for utility purposes. If I ever have to use by blade for self defense, plan A, B, and C have ALL failed.

I have found through hard experience that OC spray is something you always want with you. Even if you're just out in the yard of your home. It's that important. I keep an upgraded MAGLITE in the car, and have been known to carry a MAGLITE when walking in the dark.

Posted: **Sun Jun 05, 2022 12:30 pm**

I am 68 years old and 6'1" and 270 lbs. I get winded fairly easily so I will not be hand to hand fighting with anybody. Biden wants to take my guns, but for me, they are just about all I have to protect myself and my bride of 46 years. I carry a knife EDC, but like others have said, it is mainly a tool that I use for doing a lot of things, not getting into a knife fight. My mind still thinks I can do super human things, but sadly, my body says "no way Joe"! Getting old sucks.

Joe

Posted: **Sun Jun 05, 2022 2:24 pm**

carlson1 wrote: ↑Sat Jun 04, 2022 7:41 pm Do you carry any Les lethal options? I have to use a walking cane and it is solid wood built out of one piece of heavy wood. I also carry SABRE Pepper Gel. I carry a Benchmade OTF knife. After all of that then the last thing I want to do is draw and have to use my sidearm.

I was wondering what you carry that might help keep you from deadly force?

I carry a knife, and if in a 46.03 or 46.035 location I carry pepper spray but
I do NOT want drawing and using my sidearm to be "the last thing I do"

(kidding, I know how you meant it, it's the last thing i'd want to do if avoidable... )
i have heavy wooden Cane-Fu Tactical Assault canes, from CaneMasters but don't carry them lately since my knees are better right now

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