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Re: Federal Premium Personal Defense rounds vs Hydrashok's
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 6:34 am
by Liberty
Russell wrote:According to Federal's website, the Premium Personal Defense rounds are NOT the same as the Hydrashok's. They say the Personal Defense rounds contain Hydrashok bullets, but what exactly is the difference? Their website is not very forth-coming with this information and I am curious. Anyone know?
Premium® Personal Defense® (Featuring Hydra-Shok® bullets)
We hope you'll never have to use our Premium® Personal Defense® ammunition in a critical situation. But if you do, you'll
appreciate the increased muzzle velocity and energy compared to standard loads, and the rapid bullet expansion that delivers
instant stopping power. You'll also appreciate that recoil is significantly reduced. In addition, our unique clear packaging lets
you see the ammo before you even open the box.
Hydra-Shok®
The choice of law enforcement agencies nationwide. Federal's unique center-post design delivers controlled expansion, and the
notched jacket provides efficient energy transfer to penetrate barriers while retaining stopping power. The deep penetration of this
jacketed bullet satisfies even the FBI's stringent testing requirements.
They dont want us to have the same ability to defend ourselves as the LEOs. Federal has a whole line of ammo that we aren't suposed to be able to buy. I use Federal personal defence because I can get them. I don't get to gunshows and Acadamy has the ammo available.
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 7:18 am
by MoJo
Federal Personal Defense is a "reduced recoil" loading. They achieve this by using a lighter bullet and or reduced powder charge. If you want regular Hydrashock it is available in 20 round boxes or online from several dealers in 50 round "Law Enforcement" boxes.
http://www.Ammunitiontogo.com is a good source.
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 9:45 am
by pastor1
According to Ed Sanow in a Guns and Ammo report, the hydra-shoks out perform the personal defense load on animated targets.
Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:37 pm
by G.C.Montgomery
Wasn't a bunch of Sanow's "research" debunked some years ago?
Anyway, as stated earlier, the only difference between Hydrashok ammunition and Federal's Personal Defense line is bullet and charge weights. The Personal Defense line uses lighter bullets and lighter charges to provide reduced recoil. As an example, in .45ACP, the personal defense line does not offer a 230grain load. It’s limited to 165 grains. The same is true in .40S&W where bullet weights are limited to 135 grains as opposed to 180 grains.
It might be worth noting that Federal’s current LE marketing campaign does not push the now, twenty-two-year-old Hydrashok bullet. The bullets remain available as a low-cost alternative to Federal’s current HST line which is a thoroughly modern design. The HST line is not marketed to civilians at all but, you can buy it online from several retailers including
http://www.streichers.com.
Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:53 pm
by saltydog
HST is 'Plus P'. 230@960.
Hydra-Shock is 230@870.
HS has a 'record' of reliability through my mags out out of the ejection port of my guns.
HS is kinder to the aluminum feed ramp of my Commanders. As is Winchester Ranger SXT. Not so with Federal HST.
Other than Marketing, I see no advantage to the 'new', 'improved' Plus P HST over HS.
The LEO HST is std velocity. They sell all they can make to agencies.
That said, I do have whats is left of 1000 rds of Plus P HST that I have been fooling around with that is fired in a steel feed ramp Commander.
Like HS, the HST Plus P has, so far, been reliable through my magazines and my pistols.
As has Winchester SXT.
Federal HS has had a 20 year run. Just because its not the newest does not mean that its been out-dated.
That has been my little bit of experience with 45 ACP.
The 'reduced recoil' federal ammunition, at least in 9X19, does not cycle reliabily in my BHPs. They have std recoil springs.
Semi-autos have to have a specific energy level to function.
Stuff like 'Plus P' and 'reduced recoil', I think, are Marketing attempts to sell a product.
Some work, some may not.
If asked, I'd go with what energy level and bullet weight that paticular pistol was designed for.
salty.
I dunno, but that is my, admittedly, biased opinion.
All three have been reliable.
Posted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:02 pm
by Paladin
Russell,
Federal Tactical and HST are the better defensive rounds *(as long as they run in your gun)
Some recommendations here:
9mm
Barnes XPB 115gr HP (35515) loaded by:
Cor-Bon (DPX09115)
Winchester Partition Gold 124gr JHP (RA91P)
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester Ranger-T 127gr JHP +P+ (RA9TA)
Winchester Ranger-T 147gr JHP (RA9T)
Speer Gold Dot 124gr JHP +P (53617)
Speer Gold Dot 147gr JHP (53619)
Remington Golden Saber 147gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Federal Tactical 124gr JHP (LE9T1)
Federal Tactical 135gr JHP +P (LE9T5)
Federal HST 147gr JHP (P9HST2)
.38spl/.357mag
Speer Gold Dot 135gr +P (53921) - .38spl, specially designed for snubnose guns. Here is an excellent article from Federal's website which gives you more information than you'd ever want to know about this round, as well as effective ranges and performance evaluation using the FBI test protocol for that round.
A good performer may also be found in 148gr WC-type bullets. It's important to use soft lead, as this will cause a flattening/mushrooming of the bullet and still penetrate deeply enough (under review). The original "FBI" load was a 158 gr +P LSWCHP. In .357mag, the 180gr Partition Gold may be an excellent bullet choice giving perfect penetration and reliable expansion.
There are no other recommendations due to the lack of testing, so make sure you test these if you plan to use them in your gun.
Also look at loads using the Barnes DPX bullet as loaded by Cor-Bon and now Federal. Please be aware that Federal lists the "Barnes expander" under their "Vital-Shok" handgun hunting section, while the inferior Hydra-Shok is listed for personal defense.
.357SIG
Federal Tactical and HST loads.
Speer Gold Dot 125gr JHP
.40 S&W
Barnes all-copper bullets (140 & 155gr) loaded by:
Cor-Bon (DPX40140)
Winchester Ranger 180gr JHP (RA40T)
Winchester Ranger 165gr JHP (RA40TA)
Winchester Partition Gold 165gr JHP (RA401P)
Speer Gold Dot 155gr JHP (53961)
Speer Gold Dot 180gr JHP (53966)
Federal Tactical 165gr JHP (LE40T3)
Federal Tactical 180gr JHP (LE40T1)
Federal HST 180gr JHP (P40HST1)
Remington Golden Saber 180 gr JHP (GS40SWB)
.45ACP
Barnes XPB 185gr HP (45185) loaded by:
Cor-Bon (DPX45160)
Taurus (TCB45ACP185HP)
Winchester Ranger 230gr JHP (RA45T)
Winchester Ranger 230gr JHP +P (RA45TP)
Federal Tactical 230gr JHP (LE45T1)
Federal HST 230gr +P JHP (P45HST1)
Speer Gold Dot 230 gr JHP (23966)
http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=237