Are night sights a scam?

[C-dub]

Honestly, in a life threatening situation you will never see your sights.

Not necessarily true.

Yeah, but I'm not AndyC.

[C-dub]

I don't want them to shoot at the light because that's all they see, and have it right in front of my face. I carry various hand held flash lights in my off hand, and I extend it up and away from my body when applicable, so if somebody does start shooting, hopefully the light is blindin enough that they don't see my silouette, and they shoot at my light, which would be over two feet away from my body. I'd rather get shot in the arm, then shot in the face. That's just my approach, But I had coworkers that loved mouted lights because better gun control, so it's a compromise of what you want.

All of that presupposes that they can shoot accurately - and that you're still where the light *used to be*. Me, I prefer a handheld flashlight plus the extra control of my weak hand on a gun (Harries or Rogers style) - but as you implied, the method used is definitely an individual choice.

Another benefit of having the light off gun is that you're not pointing your gun at everything you're sweeping with your light. OTOH, in either case, aren't you supposed to be "pulsing" the light on for less than a second at a time, and moving in between?

I prefer my gun to be pointing at whatever I'm clearing - and I've done a LOT of that. As for pulsing - yes. It always makes me chuckle watching a relay of "tactical shooters" run an entire stage with the flashlight on constantly. Good - they can draw the fire.

Honestly, in a life threatening situation you will never see your sights.

Not necessarily true.

Yeah, but I'm not AndyC.

Well, I prescribe to the "Have it and not need it than the reverse" philosophy, mate ;)

Touché. You got me there. I guess I'll have to keep my NS since I also subscribe to that philosophy.

[Charlies.Contingency]

Ugh - I can't believe I said "prescribe" and not "subscribe". I'm blaming flu.

Stop blaming the flu, we know it was you. (Comon', it rymed! I must be getting old...)

All of that presupposes that they can shoot accurately - and that you're still where the light *used to be*. Me, I prefer a handheld flashlight plus the extra control of my weak hand on a gun (Harries or Rogers style) - but as you implied, the method used is definitely an individual choice.

Of course, I fall to the harries position when I'm no trying to hold my light away from me. I can't do the rogers hold between my index and middle finger because it's too awkward, and I wear a ring that makes it painful to hold between my middle and ring finger. I like carry a maglight anyway, I always like having an aluminum "pipe" in my off hand if needed! But I also like my leatherman LED monarch, which fits perfectly in one of my old leather leatherman pouches on my duty belt.

[Excaliber]

I love my night sights on my Sig. We had a night qualification at the academy at from anchor point to 7yrds pitch black shooting off hand with no night sights. This made me get them on my duty weapon. Honestly, in a life threatening situation you will never see your sights.

You will if everything else is dark and they're the only things showing light.

Whether you'll use them or not is another question and goes back to how you train.

[VMI77]

I don't want them to shoot at the light because that's all they see, and have it right in front of my face. I carry various hand held flash lights in my off hand, and I extend it up and away from my body when applicable, so if somebody does start shooting, hopefully the light is blindin enough that they don't see my silouette, and they shoot at my light, which would be over two feet away from my body. I'd rather get shot in the arm, then shot in the face. That's just my approach, But I had coworkers that loved mouted lights because better gun control, so it's a compromise of what you want.

All of that presupposes that they can shoot accurately - and that you're still where the light *used to be*. Me, I prefer a handheld flashlight plus the extra control of my weak hand on a gun (Harries or Rogers style) - but as you implied, the method used is definitely an individual choice.

Another benefit of having the light off gun is that you're not pointing your gun at everything you're sweeping with your light. OTOH, in either case, aren't you supposed to be "pulsing" the light on for less than a second at a time, and moving in between?

I prefer my gun to be pointing at whatever I'm clearing - and I've done a LOT of that. As for pulsing - yes. It always makes me chuckle watching a relay of "tactical shooters" run an entire stage with the flashlight on constantly. Good - they can draw the fire.

Honestly, in a life threatening situation you will never see your sights.

Not necessarily true.

Yeah, but I'm not AndyC.

Well, I prescribe to the "Have it and not need it than the reverse" philosophy, mate ;)

To me, that seems to be dependent on the situation, and perhaps experience level. I think you're referring to sweeping in a combat scenario, whereas I'm referring to a home situation where others and pets may be present. I don't even like sweeping my dogs with my muzzle, but I agree, there are situations where pointing at what you're clearing is necessary. And realistically, that's probably what I'd end up doing, since I have lights on the guns I would use for defense at night, and might not find my flashlight so easily. And since it's just the wife and I now, and the dogs sleep in the bedroom with us, anyone at the end of my light is not likely to be a friendly.

[The Annoyed Man]

Other than the idea of having your light shot at, I prefer a weapon mounted light..... but I have never had to use one in extremis. As far as whether or not having the light mounted on the weapon will cause you to sweep someone you'd rather not, I understand that, but consider the following....

1. Booger hook off the bang switch until ready to fire. In a CQB situation, it can be difficult even for highly trained pros to avoid an occasional muzzle sweep......even in training. For those of us who are not SEALs/Delta/whatever, it will be even harder to avoid since it it is al out impossible to get that level of training on a civilian budget. Keeping your booger hook off the bang switch doesn't make it ok to sweep someone, but it will at least mitigate the outcome if it should happen. I cannot guarantee that the person who enters my home at night isn't someone I want to shoot — after all, my son has a key to my house, and he has done dumb things before (as have I) — but I can guarantee that I won't shoot until I'm sure of my target.

2. My weapon light has a momentary switch, and a strobe setting as well as a full-on setting. In the little bit of practicing I've done with it, I use my trigger finger to actuate the momentary light switch by holding it down....which keeps my trigger finger off the trigger. I use just brief flickers of light interspersed between slow movements. So I'm not likely to be firing with the light on unless I've made a deliberate decision to flip the switch upwards into full-on before firing; and I'm not likely to flip the the switch all the way on unless I'm satisfied that it is safe to do so. Nobody had to teach me this. It just made sense.

But that said, as I mentioned in my "cataracts" thread, things look a lot darker to me than they used to, so I'm realistically more likely to depend on the light today than I would have just a year ago. The technique I mentioned above of switching the light on and off doesn't work as well as it used to for me. It leaves me briefly blinded, and the only way I can avoid it is by looking briefly offline from the beam, and using the edge of the beam to light things more than the center. I hope to have surgery to correct that some day, and I can get back to doing things Ina way that makes more tactical sense; but realistically, I am more likely today to leave the light on and take my chances these days.

Not the best solution, but better than no solution. I think that night sights are very useful in low light, but I don't think any of us has any business shooting in total darkness where we can't see the target, especially if we have loved ones in the house with us. Clearing a warehouse is a different animal maybe, but that is a least likely scenario for me.

(EDITED BECAUSE APPARENTLY THE FORUM CENSOR DOESNT LIKE THE WORD "_______"...., AS IN TO FLICK A LIGHT SWITCH ON AND OFF, WITH AN "ING" APPENDED TO THE END..... )

[Jumping Frog]

... I think you're referring to sweeping in a combat scenario, whereas I'm referring to a home situation where others and pets may be present. I don't even like sweeping my dogs with my muzzle, but I agree, there are situations where pointing at what you're clearing is necessary.

It is also pretty straightforward to point the handgun towards the ground about 15 feet in front of you (kind of midway between pointing it horizontally and at low ready). The indirect light emanating like a cone of light will still provide plenty of light to illuminate without pointing directly at a person. You can bounce the light off the floor to still search the room. Then, if it is someone who you really do need to point a firearm at, it is only raising the muzzle a touch to be on target.

This technique allows clearing rooms without muzzle sweeping everyone and everything before you identify the target.

Here is an example:

[youtube][/youtube]

[nightmare69]

I was repeating what I heard from instructors when I went through ALERRT training. I found it so be true when I was being shot at with simulation ammo, I had already fired 3rds before I ever got a sight picture, all hit the shooter BTW. The senerio they set up was high stress and felt very real.

[TBJK]

Not to hijack your thread but where is there a range around here where we can practice "night time" firing?

[C-dub]

Not to hijack your thread but where is there a range around here where we can practice "night time" firing?

I am not aware of any. Some indoor ranges may have a light that you can turn off in your lane. BassPro is like that, but it still doesn't get very dark. It's only moderate to low light at the darkest.

My own club, where I've done a night shoot match prohibits shooting after dark. Mostly, I think, out of respect for the folks that are within ear shot and for safety. In order to do the night shoot match we had to get permission from the board and entries were limited to those club members they had seen were safe enough that they were confident enough there wouldn't be any problems with the added difficulty of shooting at night in near complete darkness. Our club does not have lighting in the rifle or handgun areas.