Moderator: carlson1
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Anygun, you're going to get everyone depressed. Then when they go see the doc for their depression, he's going to ask if they have guns. Then "they" are going to come take their guns away, in Escalades.anygunanywhere wrote:Once the confiscations start then there will be plenty of ammo for the confiscators. They can carry all that ammo in the confiscated Escalades.
Anygunanywhere
More at linkWill the U.S. soon face a critical situation in which the federal government– primarily the Department of Homeland Security – possesses an ammunition surplus while local and state authorities face ammunition shortages and backlogs in purchasing more rounds?
Current trends could find the federal government with a strong ammunition advantage over local police and sheriff departments.
Earlier this week, a Georgia TV station reported that police officers training at the Chatham County Sheriff’s Office Gun Range were holding back on some live-range ammunition training due to shortage concerns.
...
I understand that there are issues on which hearings need to be held like Bengazi. But I really believe that the House needs to open hearings on DHS because of these ammo purchases. First, how did the department get big enough to require that much ammo and against whom would it be used? Yes, those of us here probably have an answer but that question needs to be asked in a formal Congressional forum.geekwagun wrote:Let's not forget about the very large ammunition orders the DHS and other federal agencies have placed over the past year. Those contracts are going to be multi-year delivery deals. More here
Homeland Security hoarding ammo,depriving police Cops scramble for bullets while DHS stockpiles 1.2 billion rounds
Published: 8 hours ago
by Aaron Klein
http://www.wnd.com/2013/01/feds-to-hold ... pEDylTA.99
More at linkWill the U.S. soon face a critical situation in which the federal government– primarily the Department of Homeland Security – possesses an ammunition surplus while local and state authorities face ammunition shortages and backlogs in purchasing more rounds?
Current trends could find the federal government with a strong ammunition advantage over local police and sheriff departments.
Earlier this week, a Georgia TV station reported that police officers training at the Chatham County Sheriff’s Office Gun Range were holding back on some live-range ammunition training due to shortage concerns.
...
Andrew wrote:My vendor of choice for 5.56 or .223 is Old Virginia, they have run out twice since Sandy Hook, but have always had stock again in a few days. http://www.oldvirginia.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; . If the Feds were confiscating ammo, surely they'd suck up supply fron one of their contractors for 5.56, Black Hills.chasfm11 wrote:I'm pretty frustrated by the lack of .22ammo, too. I figured that the larger calibers might go and have the stock that I want. But .22? Please!
I've got arrangements with two different Wal-Marts to find out what they are getting each day. Their corp. office is not allowing the stores to order any ammo so they get whatever is on the truck
I don't know if you can believe that but the Wal-Mart employees claim that they will not be getting .223 again. The is a government "hold" on the sale of all of that. If true, it is exactly what I expected. They cannot ban and confiscate so they will just dry up the ammo.
When I read the original stories, I heard the talk about them buying ammo to use against the citizens...then I read about them making contracts so they could allocate money to themselves, then cancel the contracts later but still have the budgeted money to spend on whatever...now it seems like a pretty good way to tie up manufacturing and raw material...and they can print whatever amount of money they want to cover the bill...copper is already expensive enough and is used not only in bullet jacketing, but to make the brass for cases, as well...giant orders of ammo, that may never get used, but simply left in storage in some ammo bunker somewhere sure does tie up a lot of resources...and drives prices up, to boot...geekwagun wrote:Let's not forget about the very large ammunition orders the DHS and other federal agencies have placed over the past year. Those contracts are going to be multi-year delivery deals. More here
Homeland Security hoarding ammo,depriving police Cops scramble for bullets while DHS stockpiles 1.2 billion rounds
Published: 8 hours ago
by Aaron Klein
http://www.wnd.com/2013/01/feds-to-hold ... pEDylTA.99
More at linkWill the U.S. soon face a critical situation in which the federal government– primarily the Department of Homeland Security – possesses an ammunition surplus while local and state authorities face ammunition shortages and backlogs in purchasing more rounds?
Current trends could find the federal government with a strong ammunition advantage over local police and sheriff departments.
Earlier this week, a Georgia TV station reported that police officers training at the Chatham County Sheriff’s Office Gun Range were holding back on some live-range ammunition training due to shortage concerns.
...
Yeah, and even the UK let's people have 22 LR....that seems to be the hardest to find. Last week I found 5.56 at Cabelas, but they didn't have 22 LR.punkndisorderly wrote:I can understand the demand side of the equation. That side of it is easily seen in board posts and at gun stores.
For the supply side, I haven't seen any real analysis of it or comment from companies beyond "we're making as much as we can".
Lead, copper, and brass are just commodities. I would't think ammunition manufacture would be a large enough percentage of all the lead, copper, and brass to strain the supply. You have powder and primers, but again, that wouldn't explain why global suppliers haven't stepped in.
And the supply, while sometimes not scarce, hasn't seemed normal since before the 2008 elections.
Risk, probably has something to do with it, but given the shelf life of the product, and the military use of 5.56, 7.62, and 9mm (the calibers in shortest supply) it would sell eventually, even after the "bubble" bursts.
Just because the situation returned more or less to normal before doesn't mean it will again, or if it does, as quickly. The situation now is entirely different. Before, there was a generalized fear of an Obama presidency without any specific threats to gun ownership. Now all the fears have been validated and there is a full court press against gun owners featuring propaganda, stigmatization, and threats of bans and confiscation. Any number of actions that put additional pressure on demand could come about....such as a tax on ammunition or requirements that raise costs such as micro stamping or imposing background checks. Things like micro stamping increase demand pressure in two ways: 1) increasing manufacturing cost, and 2) increasing demand on pre-micro stamped ammo.TexasCajun wrote:viewtopic.php?f=23&t=60720&p=761570#p761570
Looks like Academy is changing policy. 1 box/caliber/customer/day & now the ammo is at the customer service desk. I think that the 'shortage' is self-inflicted. Shelves were full just prior to Sandy Hook. Then the POTUS & VP start talking about gun bans & other nonsense so we now have a run on AR's, semi-auto pistols, & a wide variety of ammo. I've heard/read about guys setting up at Academy on Mon/Wed/Fri & scooping up all of the ammo that they can directly off of the pallets. I've also heard about folks stalking the ammo shelf at Wal-Mart & doing the same thing. My buddy went to the Pasadena gunshow a couple of weeks ago & he said that all of the usual vendors were there. The only difference is that now the $800 AR is now $2500. He also said that they had plenty of ammo in all calibers & most of it was priced at about the same level as mid-last year.
My approach has been & probably will continue to be to stop by Academy & LGSs when it's convenient, buy a box or two when I can find it, hold off on shooting pistols for a while, spend more time with the shotguns on the 5-stand & sporting clays fields. Then I'll go back to business as usual when we all calm down.
I think that we'll know the cause shortly, within the next three months. I don't mean to seem callous but the public attention span is pretty short so if it is just panic buying by those not really "into" guns, it will be over or will slow down significantly. Assuming the supply chain is working as before, some equilibrium should be reached.VMI77 wrote: I'm not saying the situation isn't going to return to normal, maybe it will; but I'm not sure it will this time. We don't have enough information yet to understand what's happening. For instance, I don't remember 22 LR being almost completely unavailable last time around. People have speculated various reasons for it, but I've seen no evidence to substantiate any of the speculation. Also, it appears the left is deliberately attempting to further inflame gun owners rather than give us any reason to calm down. The attack on gun owners has been unrelenting since Sandy Hook and completely without balance in the MSM. It sure looks like the left is going for broke, and while they may ultimately fail, it may take quite awhile to return to any kind of acceptable status quo --and even then we all know the attack will begin again at the very next opportunity. We could easily be looking at four years of shortages this time.
I too can't help but wonder what nefarious actions the Feds are taking behind the scenes (and given where many of these manufacturers are located, in league with state governments). As far as disclosing information about the Feds controlling supplies goes --I'd guess that if the Feds have the power to make a manufacturer limit supply that they also have to power to keep them quiet. One possibility might be the carrot and stick approach of threatening delicensing, other regulatory harassment, and banning sales to government while promising to pay higher future prices, buying additional quantities, and favorable regulatory treatment. Or, the government could be buying up supplies and using accounting tricks to keep the purchases off the books until later in the year.chasfm11 wrote:I think that we'll know the cause shortly, within the next three months. I don't mean to seem callous but the public attention span is pretty short so if it is just panic buying by those not really "into" guns, it will be over or will slow down significantly. Assuming the supply chain is working as before, some equilibrium should be reached.VMI77 wrote: I'm not saying the situation isn't going to return to normal, maybe it will; but I'm not sure it will this time. We don't have enough information yet to understand what's happening. For instance, I don't remember 22 LR being almost completely unavailable last time around. People have speculated various reasons for it, but I've seen no evidence to substantiate any of the speculation. Also, it appears the left is deliberately attempting to further inflame gun owners rather than give us any reason to calm down. The attack on gun owners has been unrelenting since Sandy Hook and completely without balance in the MSM. It sure looks like the left is going for broke, and while they may ultimately fail, it may take quite awhile to return to any kind of acceptable status quo --and even then we all know the attack will begin again at the very next opportunity. We could easily be looking at four years of shortages this time.
I haven't understood the sporadic shortages in some calibers for the past three years and, fearing the worst, assumed the government was somehow tinkering behind the scenes. At one point, I heard that the Feds were not allowing military brass to be recycled, drying up materials. I would have hoped that one of the ammo makers would have figured some way to disclose that information if it was true. At any rate, if the store shelves are still empty by April, there is no doubt in my mind that the Regime has implemented gun control via ammo control.
Repeating myself, every little bit of information helps make the big picture more clear. You don't have to be in with the big conspiracy crowd to understand the......plan.VMI77 wrote:
I too can't help but wonder what nefarious actions the Feds are taking behind the scenes (and given where many of these manufacturers are located, in league with state governments). As far as disclosing information about the Feds controlling supplies goes --I'd guess that if the Feds have the power to make a manufacturer limit supply that they also have to power to keep them quiet. One possibility might be the carrot and stick approach of threatening delicensing, other regulatory harassment, and banning sales to government while promising to pay higher future prices, buying additional quantities, and favorable regulatory treatment. Or, the government could be buying up supplies and using accounting tricks to keep the purchases off the books until later in the year.
At the risk of floating a "conspiracy" theory, it also occurs to me that if the Obama administration does have confiscation in mind one of the things they might do is to choke off ammo supplies in advance of taking any action. All those newbies buying ARs will find it hard to get ammo for practice or self-defense, and anyone that wasn't stocked up will be in the same boat. If I bought my first 22 right now I'd have a very hard time finding any ammo for it. That doesn't seem to fit in with the "embargo" scenario though, unless the notion is to make AR conversion kids useless as well, and those don't seem like that big of threat (from their standpoint) to me.
One thing is for sure, if something nefarious is going on it won't be much longer before we find out. I just hope that a lot of what we're hearing, such as the Obama litmus test, is false, because claims like that dovetail all too well with the very ugliest of possible scenarios.
