So, you trust your centerfire semi-auto EXPLICITLY?

[age_ranger]

I'm also thinking of attending but i'm on the fence about it. Steel and fun shooting sound great but blowing 1000 rounds is expensive regardless of caliber these days and I'm not going to sling 1000 rounds of my reloads on a turret press setup!! lol...........Still, the thought is enticing. It's a blast to shoot out there and I know he has done some extensive ground work out there to boot. We'll see..............

[Deaf Smith]

1000 rounds? Yep I trust my Glocks. All of them to make that (well maybe the 27 might not make it, but it sure would make 750.)

But since I do clean all but my practice guns after I shoot them, well I'm now worried. The most unreiable simi-auto I have now is a Colt 1991. It might make the 500 but I doubt more than that. Revolvers? Maybe 500, maybe not that much. But my carry Smiths will go bang every time if I need them.

Keep in mind guys most people don't carry 500 rounds on them, so it gets kind of hard to make them croake.

[Skiprr]

Who cares about what another person believes or whether they like or trust my handgun.
I have nothing to prove to anyone else. Whether my handguns functions or not after a 1000 rounds of ammo is stupid.
In real life, If I have "won" after a couple of magazines, "I'm outa' there". Tactical Egress is highly underrated in a civilian gun fight.
Why don't folks look to real life instead of kid fiction?

Jungle Work

Bingo!!!

I gotta agree. And I agree with Gabe Suarez that doing too much live-fire shooting makes you a poorer shot. It's very much like any other physical training: you can overtrain, you can undertrain, and you can train incorrectly.

Throwin' a case of ammo downrange during the course of several hours is not training...or practice, or proof that anybody's choice of firearm is better than anyone else's.

It's just, well, throwin' a case of ammo downrange.

For those who think that's fun in and of itself, have at it.

[JohnKSa]

Throwin' a case of ammo downrange during the course of several hours is not training...or practice...

So, at what point, in your opinion, does it stop being practice or training and start being just dumping ammo? After 200 rounds? 400? 600?

I must admit that it's been amusing to find that people seem to be genuinely offended by the idea of this match. Maybe there are a lot of people who define a range trip as a box of ammo and a two way drive, but this is only between 2 & 3 times the amount of ammo that I would burn in one of my longer range sessions. And in this case, instead of shooting it in one long session, it will be shot in 20 stages of 50 rounds each over the course of an entire day. The rounds will not be scored but they will be shot at steel targets so they are not only aimed shots but here will also be feedback for hits. No one is going to be simply dumping rounds into the berm.

Maybe that's not how everyone practices or trains, but it's more than just a little pompous to state categorically that it's "not training or practice". Would I recommend it as a regular practice regimen? No, of course not. But as a one time thing, it's not going to hurt anyone's shooting ability anymore than running a marathon makes someone a poorer runner.

Besides, as I said earlier I don't spend all my time at the range practicing or training and yet I've never wasted a single second spent at a shooting range. It doesn't have to all be rigorously definable as practice or training in order to be worthwhile.

We'll see what the results look like. Having seen the results from similar matches held in the past, I think that they will be a surprise to some. Based on past results it's not nearly as common to finish such a match malfunction free as many believe.

I have a perfect solution. For those who are offended at the idea...don't enter the match.

[carlson1]

To be honest I have never heard "over trained" by anyone I have had the pleasure to train or shoot with. That is almost like saying you are "TOO SPIRITUAL."

If I was healthy I would do more of this.

[CompVest]

I think it sounds interesting. If they allow you to keep your gun clean during the match it could be a measure as to the reliablilty of your gun. If you aren't allowed to clean your gun then it is only a test of what gun will shoot the longest when dirty.

Personally, I think most of the guns will out last the shooters. I know 1000 rounds is a LOT of rounds in one day.

[stevie_d_64]

I have a perfect solution. For those who are offended at the idea...don't enter the match.

Okey doky...

FYI...

ex?plic?it ?? (k-splst) KEY ?

ADJECTIVE:

Fully and clearly expressed; leaving nothing implied.
Fully and clearly defined or formulated: "generalizations that are powerful, precise, and explicit" (Frederick Turner).
Forthright and unreserved in expression: They were explicit in their criticism.

Readily observable: an explicit sign of trouble.
Describing or portraying nudity or sexual activity in graphic detail.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ETYMOLOGY:
Latin explicitus, past participle of explicre, to unfold ; see explicate

OTHER FORMS:
ex?plicit?ly (Adverb), ex?plicit?ness (Noun)

SYNONYMS:
explicit , categorical , definite , express , specific

These adjectives mean entirely clear and unambiguous: explicit statements; a categorical refusal; a definite answer; my express wishes; a specific purpose.

Antonym: ambiguous


I actually trust my firearms IMPLICITLY...

im?plic?it ?? (m-plst) KEY ?

ADJECTIVE:

Implied or understood though not directly expressed: an implicit agreement not to raise the touchy subject.
Contained in the nature of something though not readily apparent: "Frustration is implicit in any attempt to express the deepest self" (Patricia Hampl).
Having no doubts or reservations; unquestioning: implicit trust.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ETYMOLOGY:
Latin implicitus, variant of implictus, past participle of implicre, to entangle ; see implicate

OTHER FORMS:
im?plicit?ly (Adverb), im?plicit?ness (Noun)



Not that I am splitting hairs here...

[Will938]

JohnKSa is the man with the plan. Go for it. A lot of folks will evidently be watching for the report.

It would be a bit much for me to make it that far, I'll just scrounge up 1000 rounds and try to follow their rules as closely as I can here.

[JohnKSa]

Explicitly \Ex*plic"it*ly\, adv.
In an explicit manner; clearly; plainly; without disguise or
reservation of meaning; not by inference or implication; as,
he explicitly avows his intention.

So, you trust** your centerfire semi-auto?

**And when you say trust, you definitely say it without any reservation of meaning, right?

Thought it was a bit less cumbersome the way I originally said it.

[stevie_d_64]

Explicitly \Ex*plic"it*ly\, adv.
In an explicit manner; clearly; plainly; without disguise or
reservation of meaning; not by inference or implication; as,
he explicitly avows his intention.

So, you trust** your centerfire semi-auto?

**And when you say trust, you definitely say it without any reservation of meaning, right?

Thought it was a bit less cumbersome the way I originally said it.

Yes, exactly...I trust my experience, training, knowledge of any firearm I have used and gotten comfortable with, when I carry one for self-defensive purposes...

I do not believe taking any firearm to the brink of failure and beyond proves anything but how mechanical objects can and will fail if used in that manner...

Now, your event does sound like fun, but I am not one that needs to run through a case of ammo (in this manner) to prove a point...

But I do hope you guys and gals do have fun at this thing...

[Skiprr]

Throwin' a case of ammo downrange during the course of several hours is not training...or practice...

So, at what point, in your opinion, does it stop being practice or training and start being just dumping ammo? After 200 rounds? 400? 600?

And ya know, that's why I included the name of a known and respected professional trainer in my post and didn't expect you to assume my opinion was anything special.

Many so-called experts eschew dry practice altogether and instead advocate prodigious amounts of ammunition expenditure in live-fire drills. This is a horrible mistake. I have found that the more you shoot, the worse shot you become!

My humble opinion remains that dumping 1,000 rounds downrange during a few hours of daylight is just that: dumping a thousand rounds of ammo downrange. I've been to over a dozen advanced all-day or multi-day shooting clinics/courses, and have never seen daily round counts that high.

By posting, you implicitly asked for our opinions. You got mine.

[JohnKSa]

Now, your event does sound like fun, but I am not one that needs to run through a case of ammo (in this manner) to prove a point...

But I do hope you guys and gals do have fun at this thing...

How often do you go to the range and not have fun?

I doubt any points will be proven, it might make some people think.

As far as taking mechanical devices to the brink of failure and beyond--I think that's a bit melodramatic. Jams/failures happen in normal usage. It's not like we're trying to get people to break their guns or get them to fail in the catastrophic sense. I promise that anyone who shows up with a firearm of vintage or quality likely to be taken beyond the brink of failure (in the catastrophic sense) by the rigors of the match will not be allowed to participate. However, any decent quality gun made in modern times should be capable of completing this course without any parts breakage. Whether it has a jam is another story, both in terms of the sense and severity of the failure.

I've ... never seen daily round counts that high.

Umm... That's kind of the point.

[The Annoyed Man]

FWIW, I'm not offended by the idea. I just can't afford to do it.

[Right2Carry]

I live in the DFW area and this sounds really interesting. I think my Ruger P89 would just love this type of match. I have never had a bad day at the range and I love to shoot. 1k rounds is a lot of rounds but I am seriously thinking about it. How many spots are left? I don't have 7 magazines for my ruger but with 50 rounds per stage I would think 5 would be sufficient. I like the idea and think it would be fun.

[flintknapper]

I thought we already had the “winner�:


http://www.downrange.tv/artman2/publish ... /133.shtml


Todd Jarrett Sets New World Record With PXT 1911 SSP Pistol
By Press Release
Jan 16, 2008 - 10:56:51 AM



Moyock, NC — In an unbelievable display of speed shooting and reliability, Todd Jarrett set a world record shooting 1,000 rounds of .45ACP through a Para USA PXT™ 1911 SSP model pistol. The record was set during a torture test conducted on the secure ranges at Blackwater USA's Moyock, North Carolina, facility.

Jarrett, who holds several world and national pistol titles, used the stock, out-of-the-box Para USA pistol to shoot 1,000 rounds in just 10 minutes and 44 seconds — a rate equivalent to one shot every 0.644 seconds. The entire torture test was documented by DownRange TV and video of the shoot is available for viewing online.

Despite being supported by a team of loaders and a pile of 10-round Chip McCormick and 8-round Para PXT magazines for the single-stack 1911, Jarrett outpaced the loaders and found himself waiting for loaded mags.

"Once I got into a shooting rhythm I quickly shot through the pre-loaded magazines and the loaders had problems keeping up. Add to that the natural difficulty of reloading a single-stack 1911, the reloads I bobbled and the mix of 10-round and 8-round magazines and I could have easily broken 10 minutes," said Todd Jarrett.

However it was heat that was the biggest obstacle and the true test of both shooter and gun. Shooting 93 rounds a minute, Jarrett estimates the pistol's match-grade ramped barrel reached temperatures in excess of 550 degrees.

"Even though the outside temperature was under 50 degrees, the gun's temperature quickly rose to a point where it became hard to hold. I ended up with first-degree burns on the pad of my trigger finger which forced me to shoot even faster towards the end of the test,� explained Jarrett.

“If the gun had gotten 50 degrees hotter I wouldn’t have been able to make it through the full 1,000 rounds. This is a fabulous test but one that has to be conducted during the winter months.�

The reliability story of the PXT doesn’t end there either. Jarrett and other shooters put a combined 5,000 rounds through the pistol in a 24-hour period without any failures. Jarrett attributed this solid performance under stress to Para USA’s focus on constant improvement and the development of the Power Extractor™.

“We put 1,000 rounds through the pistol on Friday and cleaned the gun in preparation for the torture test. Then after completing the 1,000 round high-speed torture test we shot an additional 3,000 rounds. This is where having the more durable design of the Power Extractor really shines,� said Jarrett.

The Para Power Extractor was specifically designed by Para's engineers to address the one weakness in the original 1911 design. The PXT technology of the massive Power Extractor delivers improved feeding and positive extraction round after round – even through 5,000 in a day.

"A test like this will expose any weakness in a gun's design and there's no doubt in my mind that the Power Extractor was a key part of the pistol's reliability. Should someone break my time, I’ll be ready with another PXT to reclaim the record," declared Jarrett.