FN Herstal 5.7 Pistol

[68Charger]

Though it's fictional, have you seen the movie Collateral? Awesome movie about a hitman and very nice weapon handling.

Anyway, the main character used a .22 for the scene (*****SPOILER*****) where he killed the musician in the jazz club. He used a Ruger Mark III and it is also featured on the movie poster as well.

Just thought it'd be cool to show some of y'all.

[Jumping Frog]

The FN shoots a very fast bullet. I think it is basically a 22 mag.

For CCW I do not know about that.

As suggested, it is essentially a tweaked .22 magnum which would be quite a bit cheaper.

The biggest difference between the two is centerfire versus rimfire. From a reliability viewpoint, I would never carry a rimfire.

[carlson1]

http://www.eliteammunition.net/home.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They produce ammunition that I believe would work very well for CC and especially if you have access to their LEO ammunition. It is pricey, but you get what you pay for.

[wgoforth]

I really agree to this not being a good CCW. Large and long, but with 20+1, I sure would not want to face one. I understand that due to the relatively light projectile, and the amount of energy, many if not all of the shots would cause a great deal of tumble.

I may have been dreaming, but I thought I saw a rifle in this caliber with a 50 round magazine. Now that sounds like fun.

Heard the president of FN America on GUNTALK. He was talking about how and why they designed the round. Pentegon approached them, asking them to come out with a sniper bullet that wouldn't over penetrate and hit the person behind. He said the round would go in straight 11", do one turn and then stop. Based on that , it didn't sound like there would be tumble effect. And yes, was originally designed for rifles. Hesaid the second request of the Pentegon was a round that a soldier could use both in his pistol AND rifle, so the FN P90 and FN pistol were designed side-by-side. It was an interesting interview. All the programs are archived and searchable if anyone wanted to hear it.

[MadMonkey]

I don't think anyone is listening to me

ETA: I've carried mine IWB with no problems.

Fully loaded you could tell it weighed more then my brothers Glock 17 fully loaded!

Huh?

Fully loaded weight of the Five Seven with 20rds is 744g (26.24oz).

Fully loaded weight of the Glock 17 with 17rds is 904.63g (31.91oz).

That's 5.7oz, not an insignificant difference.

[rm9792]

Well according the the last CSi, you cant even buy the gun or ammo in the USA. It will rip a person in half (they called it stitching) and pentrates steel doors. Well it will go thru steel...The only thing they got right was the caliber and steel pentration. Might have to explain the 2000 rds of ammo i got that isnt available here.....

[LowGrainHighPain]

The FN shoots a very fast bullet. I think it is basically a 22 mag.

For CCW I do not know about that. I believe it has only about 225 ft/lbs of energy which puts it on the very low end.
Less than the 9mm and less than a .38 special!!

The cost of ammo and the cost of the weapon is kind of expensive.

Chuck

In a pistol-to-pistol comparison, with 40-grain bullets, the 5.7x28mm EA loads achieve a muzzle velocity roughly 700 ft/s faster than the .22 Magnum.

When 30-grain bullets are compared pistol-to-pistol, the 5.7x28mm EA loads achieve a muzzle velocity roughly 1000 ft/s faster than the .22 Magnum.

In a pistol-to-pistol comparison, the 5.7x28mm EA loads produce about three times the muzzle energy of the .22 Magnum.

http://www.gunblast.com/KelTec-PMR30-2.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.gunblast.com/FN-FiveseveN.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


The Five-seveN pistol still has more velocity/energy than the .22 Magnum even when the WMR is fired out of a 24in barrel. If we take into consideration bullet behavior, any comparison trying to be made between the two weapon systems starts to look silly. One behaves like an ice-pick, and the other a 5.56 NATO round.

Out of the PS90, depending on the grain of .224 projectile used, we are talking about a velocity range of 3,000-3,400 fps, and energy range of 670-700 ft-lbs with either fragmenting, expanding, or tumbling rounds. Of course all will penetrate armor and some rolled steel.

22mags are great for plinking at the range, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here. The 5.7x28mm platform is a legitimate self-defense option.

[LowGrainHighPain]

As suggested, it is essentially a tweaked .22 magnum

Incorrect. See above.

[LowGrainHighPain]

It is actually the gun Major Hasan used to kill 13 of his fellow soldiers at Fort Hood acouple of years ago. Very good but expensive gun. As suggested, it is essentially a tweaked .22 magnum which would be quite a bit cheaper.

I am sure it will kill people. A .22 long used to be the weapon of choice for mafia hit men. Not much
noise but it does the job.

As a CCW I would not want one. I carry one of my .40 cal and have a couple of 9mms with +P
can't see myself carrying a .22

Chuck

There is no such thing as a "stopping power" differential between common pistol calibers. The Five-seveN will do the exact same job on a purp that a 9mm, .40S&W, or 45ACP will.

Dr. Di Maio, a forensic pathologist with over 40 years experience in his field, is recognized by numerous independent sources as the nation's leading authority on gunshot wounds. Drawing on his experience and credibility, he illustrates how illogical the common obsession with bullet diameter and/or expansion is, and stresses shot placement and medical response time as being much more critical in the following quotes:

"One cannot examine the wounds in a body and say that the individual was shot with a hollow-point rather than a solid-lead bullet."

"Is there any situation in which a hollow-point handgun bullet will invariably stop an individual “dead in his tracks”? Yes, if the bullet injures a vital area of the brain, the brain stem, or the cervical spinal cord. But any bullet, regardless of style or caliber, injuring these organs will cause instant incapacitation. It is the nature of the structure injured, not the nature of the bullet, that causes the incapacitation."

"There is no objective proof that in real-life situations mushrooming of a bullet plays a significant role in increasing lethality or the “stopping power” of the bullet."

"In reality, the speed at which a wounded individual is transported to the hospital is a greater determining factor as to whether the individual will live or die than the type of ammunition used."


So "stopping power" is dictated by shot placement and has virtually nothing to do with bullet size, energy, etc. The miniscule size difference between one tiny pistol bullet (5.7mm) and another tiny pistol bullet (9mm, etc) is irrelevant. They are both tiny pistol bullets, and their performance depends on shot placement.

"In regard to charges that hollow-point ammunition is “more lethal”, in an unpublished study of over 75 fatalities from hollow-point ammunition by the author, he was unable to demonstrate any death that would not have occurred if the bullet had been an all-lead bullet. As to increased severity of wounding, this is purely theoretical. To this day, the author cannot distinguish a wound by a hollow-point bullet from that by a solid-lead bullet of the same caliber until recovery of the actual bullet."


The fact that the typical pistol bullet is smaller than a thimble and creates a permanent cavity even smaller still; if the bullet strikes a vital structure, the victim will likely be stopped/killed. If the bullet does not strike a vital structure, the victim will likely not be stopped/killed. A pistol bullet will not achieve substantial blood loss from a flesh wound, regardless of its caliber. To quote Dr. Di Maio again, from the same reference:

"Since the brain can function for 10 to 15 seconds without oxygen, even if all blood is cut off by the wound, the individual can function for this time period. If the injury does not shut off the flow of blood to the brain completely, an individual will be capable of normal activity until they lose approximately 25% of their total blood volume. The amount of time necessary for this to happen can vary from a few seconds (plus the 10 to 15 second oxygen reserve of the brain), to minutes, to hours depending on the structures injured, compensatory mechanisms of the body and attempts to staunch the bleeding by the victim. The fact that an individual can be mortally wounded, yet still be capable of aggressive actions and a threat, sometimes for a prolonged amount of time, is not appreciated by the public whose concepts of shootings is derived from television and the movies."

Here is an example that speaks directly to the incorrect assumption that "if he had used a bigger caliber bullet it might have nicked a vital orgam." LAPD officer Stacy Lim was shot in the chest with a .357 Magnum revolver:

http://www.lapdonline.org/inside_the...sic_view/27327" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(emphasis added)

"The bullet ravaged her upper body when it nicked the lower portion of her heart, damaged her liver, destroyed her spleen, and exited through the center of her back, still with enough energy to penetrate her vehicle door, where it was later found. Critically wounded, the officer brought up her weapon and fired one round which struck her assailant. He then turned and ran, but the officer followed him and fired three more rounds, which hit and fatally wounded the gunman."


So in summary, shot placement is everything.

The Five-seveN pistol firing a nearly inch-long, tumbling projectile at nearly 2,600fps and 405ft-lbs of energy (EA's 28gr S4M) is more than sufficient to stop a human threat.

[LowGrainHighPain]

Yes, the 5.7 round is like a souped up .22.

So is an AR15.

[LowGrainHighPain]

I really agree to this not being a good CCW. Large and long, but with 20+1, I sure would not want to face one. I understand that due to the relatively light projectile, and the amount of energy, many if not all of the shots would cause a great deal of tumble.

I may have been dreaming, but I thought I saw a rifle in this caliber with a 50 round magazine. Now that sounds like fun.

The Five-seveN is the same size as a 1911. I carry mine in a CrossBreed holster and I don't even notice it. It is practically weightless carried IWB.

[LowGrainHighPain]

2300 fps, but only about 340 ft/lbs due to small bullet. Better than that with the P90 carbine, of course.

You can get similar cover-defeating penetration in a much less expensive package with the CZ vz. 52, which uses the 7.62x25 (aka .30 Tok.) cartridge. Usually available for less than $250 and is C&R listed. 1700 fps and 760 ft/lbs (FMJ).

Tokarev's are fun but they overpenetrate (30+ inches in gelatin) way too much which means they are a liability to shoot in public. Also, the pistols are ancient and not as safe to carry or reliable as today's modern pistols. Capacity is low as well.

[LowGrainHighPain]

Fully loaded you could tell it weighed more then my brothers Glock 17 fully loaded!

Incorrect.

The Glock 17 empty w/ magazine: 25 ounces

The Five-seveN full (20 rds) w/ magazine: 26 ounces

And the gap keeps widening as you start to fill the G17 with ammo. One round of 9mm weighs twice as much as one round of 5.7x28mm.

It was very accurate and fun but for the cost and it's size I would rather have 15+1 of my 10mm. I am pretty sure it could over penetrate like crazy to.

Incorrect.

5.7x28mm ammunition was designed specifically NOT to overpenetrate. The bullet tumbles when entering soft tissue and dumps all of its energy inside. Ironically, your 10mm will overpenetrate against human-sized targets unless you are using 10mm light loads. In that case, you might as well be shooting a .40S&W. Full house 10mm is far too much gun for use against humans - bears are more appropriate.

This video is an excellent example of how the Five-seveN does not overpenetrate -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPW-oRJFKNA

[MadMonkey]

Thank you

[RECIT]

Fully loaded you could tell it weighed more then my brothers Glock 17 fully loaded!

Incorrect.

The Glock 17 empty w/ magazine: 25 ounces

The Five-seveN full (20 rds) w/ magazine: 26 ounces

And the gap keeps widening as you start to fill the G17 with ammo. One round of 9mm weighs twice as much as one round of 5.7x28mm.

It was very accurate and fun but for the cost and it's size I would rather have 15+1 of my 10mm. I am pretty sure it could over penetrate like crazy to.

Incorrect.

5.7x28mm ammunition was designed specifically NOT to overpenetrate. The bullet tumbles when entering soft tissue and dumps all of its energy inside. Ironically, your 10mm will overpenetrate against human-sized targets unless you are using 10mm light loads. In that case, you might as well be shooting a .40S&W. Full house 10mm is far too much gun for use against humans - bears are more appropriate.

This video is an excellent example of how the Five-seveN does not overpenetrate -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPW-oRJFKNA

Wow...read the info and watch the video. Case closed in my eyes.