1911 fever

[KFP]

Well, the pointer was good and that's what the thanks was for!

[d strokes]

Here is an animation of how the 1911 functions:

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It may help you understand it

[surprise_i'm_armed]

1911-knowledgable shooters:

I believe that some of the questions posed on this thread may
relate to the unloading of a 1911 that has been carried cocked and locked.
Hence the issues revolve around the assumption that the hammer must be
dropped manually.

Tell me whether what I remember is true or not:
One day I was at the Bullet Trap in Plano, there were hardly any customers
in the store, and I was talking with one of the employees about 1911 manual of
arms issues.

IIRC, he had a 1911, empty of rounds, with the safety in the "up safe" position.
He surprised me by racking the slide backward as if he was going to empty the
chambered round.

Do I recall this correctly? Can a 1911 have the safety on and the slide be racked
backwards in order to eject the chambered round?

If so, then this ability would negate ever having to drop the hammer manually
on a chambered round.

When my PT111's safety is on the slide can't be racked backwards.

Thanks in advance.

SIA

[jester]

Do I recall this correctly? Can a 1911 have the safety on and the slide be racked
backwards in order to eject the chambered round?

No. The 1911 safety locks the slide.

If so, then this ability would negate ever having to drop the hammer manually
on a chambered round.

With a 1911, the only reason to drop the hammer on a chambered round is to fire it.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

jester and Andra:

Thank you for disabusing me of the notion that
a 1911 slide can be racked with the safety in "up safe" mode.

SIA

[rm9792]

You guys are missing the fact that some 1911's have the slide beveled to allow racking while in the safe position. There was a good article on it last year in one of the rags and it is offered as an option from some makers. Being able to unload while the hammer is locked was touted as one of the advantages to beveled edges.

[surprise_i'm_armed]

rm9792:

Based on your last comment, then maybe I DID see a 1911 slide
racked backwards with the safety on.

For the life of me, I can't remember which brand of 1911 the
Bullet Trap employee was using in the show-and-tell, or I'd
share it with y'all.

SIA

[Carry-a-Kimber]

On my CDP, I can go from Condition 1 to hammer down simply by putting my thumb on the hammer and my trigger finger on the trigger BUT leave the palm of my hand off the grip safety. Kinda grabbing it like a 6 pack, if that makes sense. I don't typically do this on a loaded chamber and I wouldn't recomend doing with one, but it does work on my gun.

[A-R]

Many would argue (and I do not mean to start another 1911/Glock war) that the 1911 design is much more safe than most other semi-automatic pistol designs, particularly double action, or striker fired designs. In order for a 1911 pistol to fire, the following things all have to occur simultaneously. If any one item is left out, the entire system fails to fire:

1. The thumb safety must be disengaged.
2. The grip safety must be depressed (which happens naturally when you have the pistol in a firing grip).
3. The trigger must be pulled.

*note above red emphasis added by me

I guess we have different ideas of gun "safety". A gun that is designed to NOT fire unless the user completes three different tasks of manual dexterity while involved in the most stressful event they're ever likely to encounter in their entire life is not "safe" to me. Safe is being able to use a self-defense tool to save your life even when your brain, reflexes, and fine motor skills have devolved to the level of a panicked 6-month old with soiled britches who can't find momma.

In these situations, if I find the need to discharge my Glock to save my life, I simply point the Glock toward the bad guy and squeeze the trigger. It goes bang every time regardless of what my thumb does or how tight (or high) I grip it. As long as I pull the trigger, it goes bang.

After the bad guy is no longer a threat, then I can find momma, change my drawers, and go to the range to shoot my 1911

***IMPORTANT NOTE*** the above is just me playing Devil's Advocate for us Glocksters. I also don't mean to start a 1911 vs. Glock war. I actually agree that the 1911 design is in fact "safer" from unintentional discharge than the Glock design. But by making it slightly less "safe" Glock made the pistol more instinctive to use. Our ancestors didn't have to turn off the safety before beating a cave invader with a club. The Glock is just a modern day club for us slow-witted types And just as our ancestors knew not to hold the club over their head and let go, we all know not to put our fingers inside the trigger guard until we're ready to shoot. The No. 1 safety mechanism is (and always has been) our brains, regardless of which weapon we choose to carry.

Seriously, all in good fun. I truly believe the 1911 and Glock stand side by side as the two greatest pistol designs ever conceived. I honestly don't believe they will be surpassed by another powder-fired projectile weapon (it'll take something firing energy beams or somthing to better them). They were designed nearly a century apart and yet each seems to correct the others' faults. They're like a yin and yang almost.

[A-R]

The only additional thing on a 1911 is to drop the thumb-safety - and if you can remember to pull a trigger, you can just as easily remember to drop a safety-catch. If you can't, you shouldn't be around 1911s - or most any handgun, for that matter.

Again, my post was just playing devil's advocate. I have no problem with folks using a 1911. All I'll say is that if it's no problem to remember to flick off the safety, then it's no problem to also remember to rack the slide if one decides to carry in Condition 3, and no problem to remember to tap the button on a Serpa style holster, and no problem to .... well some folks DO have a problem remembering this stuff in a tense situation. I disagree that these people shouldn't be around any handgun. But perhaps a 1911 is not for them, which transitions nicely too ....

the 1911 is not designed for the lowest common denominator

... the point of my partially tongue-in-cheek original post ..... if I'm ever in a situation where my life is truly in danger, I'm fairly certain I will quickly become an l.c.d. dufus and forget to hit the safety switch. I'm not an "operator" or a "warrior" so Glocks work for me on the rare chance that I will ever need to use one.

And I'm not saying that one cannot train themselves to effectively use a 1911 - even us regular folk can do it, obviously (just look at all the 1911 users here). I agree that with proper repetition and training, the safety selector becomes just part of the gun, second nature. I believe strongly in selecting a type of firearm that works best for you and sticking with it. This is why I don't own a 1911 (even though I REALLY want one) and why every handgun I own operates the same way as the Glock I've owned for 12 years - just point and pull the trigger whether it's a Glock, Walther PPS, S&W revolver, or Ruger LCP. Consistent functionality across every gun I ever carry or keep loaded and ready.

Someday I will buy a 1911, but I wouldn't put it into my carry or home defense rotation until I had A LOT of training with it. I think it's much easier for those trained on 1911s to use a Glock occassionally than the other way around. If you're trained to flip off the 1911 safety, then even when subconscious muscle memory kicks in while using a Glock, it's not like you can make a Glock not go bang by sweeping your thumb at a non-existent safety. However, if you're trained to use a Glock and one day find yourself using a 1911, forgetting to flick off the safety can be deadly. Also, as I've personally found out, forgetting that a 1911 trigger has NO TAKE UP like a Glock trigger can lead to an ND (a frightening lesson that I will never forget).

So I guess if my rambling has a point, it's simply that as someone who chose to go with l.c.d. (Glock) years ago, a transition to using a 1911 would be an uphill climb of re-training a brain that may not be up to the task

[dicion]

So I guess if my rambling has a point, it's simply that as someone who chose to go with l.c.d. (Glock) years ago, a transition to using a 1911 would be an uphill climb of re-training a brain that may not be up to the task

All the more reason to start with 1911's!

[jester]

Thanks to rm9792 and Carry-a-Kimber for the reminder that some firearms look like a 1911 but don't function the same.