Open Carry - First One Shot?

[DoubleJ]

man.

I was hopin' this'd go for at leeeeeeast 7 pages. Where's Frankly the Yankly when ya need'im???

[age_ranger]

I thought I would give open carry a try so while on a road trip through Arizona I strapped up a Beretta PX4G (large mag release, med backstrap, lanyard loop and trigger job) loaded with 17 rounds of 115gr +p CorBon DPX in a Galco open top OWB and filled up at Love's. You know I had to get all the facts out or you guys would wonder Ok, so I filled up and went in to pay. I felt like I was on display and everyone was out to get me. Paranoia settled in and I couldn't wait to get out of public view. I didn't want people knowing I was armed, didn't want to be the nail that was sticking out and certainly didn't want to have people behind me!

Like a previous post stated, there's a time/place for it. Wearing an open top holster at a busy gas station in the middle of the day ain't it! Just that one day helped me understand allot about open carry. Retention holster is a must. Stay away from contrasting clothing. A black retention holster with that black gun and a black t-shirt would have worked much better. It's all one big learning process.

Here's me out in Arizona:

[Liko81]

So what's the benefit of open carry?

* It is faster to draw from than concealment.
* It is a deterrent to your average street criminal, who is looking for an easy target and not a fight.
* It is a conversation starter that increases public awareness of legal gun carry.
* In warmer weather, it allows for more comfortable clothing choices and reduces chafing.

There are some disadvantages:
* More attentiveness is required: if a person is allowed to OC but not CC, they must ensure the gun is always plainly visible.
* More attentiveness is required: an OCer has a higher chance that someone will attempt to take his gun from its holster.
* Hoplophobes, either clinically or politically, will make a fuss over it, drawing attention to you.
* Police are not always educated as to the legality of concealed carry, or may know but not like it, resulting in unfriendly encounters.

[GrillKing]

I would probably not open carry much, if at all, but the advantages of an open carry law (or lack of restriction) to me would be:

Eliminates the UCW when showing a handgun to a friend at their home, place of business, etc.

Eliminates the somewhat subjective nature of failure to conceal (what constitutes intentional? If the wind lifts your shirt, is that intentional (I say no) but the argument could be made you should have better shirt retention on a windy day! I.e., it's windy, you should know better, therefore it is intentional (or at least reckless). It doesn't matter what we on the forum think, it matters what the arresting officer thinks. We sometimes have a tendancy to say you could beat the rap on bogus charges, but at what personal cost?)

Eliminates the somewhat subjective nature of failure to conceal If you carry IWB, shirt tucked, is a slight "printing" of the grip failure to conceal? I say, depends on how "slight". Open carry removes this concern for me.

These are more important to me than truly open carrying. I prefer concealed w/o a concern if a flash or printing is made by someone. I have seen people I know were carrying, but the average person in their midst would not notice.

[CompVest]

Personally, I would have thought you were an off duty or plainclothes cop and kept an eye on you in case you weren't. I would have continued on with my business.

[Keith B]

I agree with CompVest. Short hair, clean cut, Dockers does not draw as much attention as someone who doesn't meet that criteria. Let's face it, not all folks fit that off-duty officer look. Some of the legal gun toter's I know have longer hair, tattoos, dress in denim and ride motorcycles (not that there is anything wrong with that) and get tagged with the 'biker' stigma. You tell me who will get the police called on them first?

As one who moved from a state where open carry has always been legal, I can tell you it is NOT done 99.9% of the time in public. While it may be legal and within your rights, you can bet that even if you look, walk and smell like an off-duty police officer, someone will eventually call in a MWG (Man With a Gun) report. It has, and does, happen. Even off duty officers I know don't open carry there. They will either cover it with a jacket or shirt OWB, or conceal IWB or pocket.

I personally don't have a problem with open carry being legal, as that does eliminate some gray areas. But if you think you are going to be able to wander around willie-nillie and open carry in stores and on the street without raising eyebrows and cell phones, you are dead wrong.

[ironsights]

most bad guys are looking for a quick fix and do not want a fight. They are insecure and want an easy target. They are not afraid of LEO'S, but they are afraid of us. They should be afraid of us. You do not see an armored car personel hidding his firearm. You will be less likely targeted if the perp knows they will be in a fire fight. I have known several people involved in robberies that did not go down so easy. If you have a reason that outwieghs the reasoning of a criminal you sould safegaurd yourself with safetey doors and such. No crackhead is going to start a gun figt with you unless it out weighs the risk. If they do, you stay calm draw down, fire, and kill...Bad guys 0, Good guys 1. Show us your gun!!!!!

[flintknapper]

most bad guys are looking for a quick fix and do not want a fight. They are insecure and want an easy target. They are not afraid of LEO'S, but they are afraid of us. They should be afraid of us. You do not see an armored car personel hidding his firearm. You will be less likely targeted if the perp knows they will be in a fire fight. I have known several people involved in robberies that did not go down so easy. If you have a reason that outwieghs the reasoning of a criminal you sould safegaurd yourself with safetey doors and such. No crackhead is going to start a gun figt with you unless it out weighs the risk. If they do, you stay calm draw down, fire, and kill...Bad guys 0, Good guys 1. Show us your gun!!!!!

If they do, you stay calm draw down, fire, and (stop the threat)...Bad guys 0, Good guys 1.

Fixed it for ya.


A person may or may not die as a result of your action to "stop the threat", but it should never be your intention to "kill". I am sure that is what is what you meant. If not, then I submit it is a patently bad idea for anyone to write such a thing on the INTERNET (very easy for that to come back and bite you).

[TX Rancher]

I don’t think open carry (OC in this thread) would really make any substantial difference to the CHL’r.

Failure to conceal:

There is often a statement around it would protect me against inadvertent exposure and printing, but I doubt in reality this would be the case (I used to, but I don’t anymore). Take for instance a situation where you are legally carrying concealed, but for some reason your weapon is seriously printing. If an officer, or a citizen sees that, why would an OC law change their response? After all, the law is for open carry, not concealed carry. If they were going to raise the flag before open carry, they’ll still raise it after open carry. An OC law won’t change the intentional failure to conceal portion of the CHL law.

You will be shot first:

Yep, that’s a possibility…but I bet a slim one. Many of the robberies caught on tape show the BG’s pacing around outside the store waiting for customers to leave, or at least the count to go down, before they enter to rob the place. If they see a citizen with a gun I suspect that will typically encourage them to wait rather than pull their roscoe, run through the door and shoot the citizen before he can respond.

OC response if faster:

This is true for most people when comparing non-retention holsters with and without a cover garment. But if you switch to a retention holster for OC, your time to presentation could be impacted. If you go with a level III, under pressure you may not even be able to get it out of the holster (as some LEO’s have discovered).

In one class I attended, two students were using the level 3 Serpa. During force on force they would have trouble locating the button 2 out of 3 times…the net result is they “died” during the simulation. They were very proficient on the range, but add in an attacker to put pressure on them and things fell apart fast.

Also, if the deterrent factor of open carry didn’t work, you’re going to need the faster response time since that means the guy knows you are armed, and doesn’t care. You no longer have surprise on your side.

Crowded locations are a pain:

If you are OC’ing, crowded locations represent a lot of mental stress. You end up spending all your time worrying about retention, which means you’re probably not spending a lot of time on your primary purpose for coming in the first place.

The average citizen will have a cow:

I kind of doubt this one…I suspect most citizens would assume legal activity and their initial thoughts would probably be “LEO”. Of course that’s assuming your attire is commensurate.

But Joe Average is not the one I’m concerned about…it’s the self righteous big mouth that worries me. This is the one that’s going to make a big stink and call the Sherriff and demand action. I’ll win in the end, but I would rather avoid the situation in the first place.
There’s also the possibility that the more law abiding citizens are seen carrying without the streets running red with blood, the more acceptable carrying for self defense will become.

My stance on Open Carry is I’m for it. If a bill was to end up before the legislature I would lobby for it to pass.
There would be places and times I would OC and think nothing of it…where I live, no one would think anything of it. For instance when I have to cross the road on horseback to tend cows I wouldn’t bother to conceal. But I would probably stay concealed when I visited Austin or even Bastrop.
When I stop at the local station to fill up, I probably wouldn’t bother to put on a cover garment. But if I decided to go into a crowded Quick Trip I probably would.

To me there are both pros and cons to open carry. There are tactical issues for and against, and the same is true for social issues. But I think I should have the right to decide which I prefer to do in a given situation in public, not the state, not the Sherriff, not the anti gun citizen, and not other CHL’rs who have decided it’s a bad idea…it should be my call.

[ironsights]

I do apologize for parts of my previous comment. I got to thinking more on the lines of game hunting I suppose. It should not be your intention to kill rather than defuse the situation and secure your area. I would pray that I never have to take a life no matter what. I apologize and am greatly in appreciation to my other members, elders and peers that help my community and me.