Irving homeowner shoots burglar

[portsider44]

Shooting victim?

Interesting terminology. Personally I would have gotten a good description if possible and called 911. Tools for a life is not much of a trade in my book. Especially since it was a detached shed being robbed. The homeowner while legally protected, and rightfully so, could have avoided putting himself in a situation where he had to pull the trigger. Tools, cars, etc... can be replaced and I am not willing to jeapardize my freedom for the protection of material objects. Now had the thief entered or attempted to enter his home that's a whole different story. I am sure that many will not agree and that's OK.

Although this is legally a justified shooting it's hard to say it's a good shoot. It's never good to have to take a life, regardless of the situation.
I've thought a lot about this lately since this seems to be happening more often.

Anyway just my opinion for what it's worth

Only problem with that line of thinking is what comes next. So you let the BG get away with robbing your shed & next time he thinks its OK to move to the house. WHat if the BG would have been discovered by your wife and he decided to do her harm?

As some point we have got to start holding these crooks responsible for their actions. The cost to us is not just as simple as a tools or TV's. The cost of having your house broken into doesn't just stop at the cost of a few material things. Losing the feeling of stafety in your own house is not easily replaced. The lost of items & the increase of home owners premuim last way past the discomfort of replacing items.

Plus where do you think the majority of guns that fall into the hands of 16 year old gang bangers come from. Would our 2nd Amend rights be in such jeopardy if we didn't have all the stolen guns in the hands of idiots, kids and criminals???

Theft prevention is not a main concern for most police forces. Once again the police are there to fill out reports after the fact. (not knocking LEO's) It's hard to find a medium to large size city that hasn't seen huge increases in home, auto, and other thefts. How many of those simple thefts turn into assualt & murder. When they are caught in the act?

So for me, I think the homeowner was correct in the way he handled it.

[SC1903A3]

I know some people that if they had their tools stolen they wouldn't be able to earn a living. I know the area where this occurred . It's very blue collar. So the question is when he saw his tools leaving was he seeing someone taking away his livelihood.

[Wildscar]

I'm sorry but If I catch you stealing my stuff and I tell you to put it down and dont move till the cops get there. If you drop the stuff and move toward me I not going to think you want to shake my hand and apologize for it all.

[Xander]

I'm sorry but If I catch you stealing my stuff and I tell you to put it down and dont move till the cops get there. If you drop the stuff and move toward me I not going to think you want to shake my hand and apologize for it all.

I don't think anyone (here) disagrees with you on that point.

I think there are orthogonal discussions happening in this thread (and many similar threads.)

1) Is it acceptable for an one to attempt to stop a thief, and to shoot the thief if that thief attacks, or makes overtures that an attack is impending?

I think we're nearly all in agreement that this is indeed acceptable self-defense.


2) Is it acceptable to shoot a thief to save property/teach him a lesson/send a message that thievery won't be tolerated/fill in the blank reason other than a direct and immediate physical threat to the property owner or third person.

This, as I see it, is where there are some philosophical differences in our individual points of view.

-Xander

[RubenZ]

I've sometimes thought of this a lot actually.

I agree with the above. I think we are all on agreement with shooting an advancing thief.


I've thought. Well what happens if I look out my back window and see a kid in my yard jacking me up. Should I just go shoot him? I don't think I could. Would I confront him? Heck Yes!!

I've even gone so far as to thinking of maybe busting out my .22 and shooting him in the knee caps and let him jump the fence and leave? But that may have too many negative consequences. Who knows!

[ScubaSigGuy]

I know some people that if they had their tools stolen they wouldn't be able to earn a living. I know the area where this occurred . It's very blue collar. So the question is when he saw his tools leaving was he seeing someone taking away his livelihood.

Very good point.

[seamusTX]

I've thought. Well what happens if I look out my back window and see a kid in my yard jacking me up. Should I just go shoot him?

I don't know what "jacking me up" means.

You cannot legally use deadly force to prevent theft other than robbery, burglary, and theft in the night time.

- Jim

[LedJedi]

I've thought. Well what happens if I look out my back window and see a kid in my yard jacking me up. Should I just go shoot him?

I don't know what "jacking me up" means.

You cannot legally use deadly force to prevent theft other than robbery, burglary, and theft in the night time.

- Jim

I dont mind saying we need to fix those laws.

If the tools are in the garage that's part of the structure of the house then it's burglary and you're authorized for deadly force, if it's laying in your yard and they steal it (even if a fenced in back yard) it's just theft and you can only use deadly force in the night time.

Sec. 30.02. BURGLARY. (a) A person commits an offense if, without the effective consent of the owner, he:
(1) enters a habitation, or a building (or any portion of a building) not then open to the public, with intent to commit a felony or theft; or
(2) remains concealed, with intent to commit a felony or theft, in a building or habitation; or
(3) enters a building or habitation and commits or attempts to commit a felony or theft.
(b) For purposes of this section, "enter" means to intrude:
(1) any part of the body; or
(2) any physical object connected with the body.
(c) Except as provided in Subsection (d), an offense under this section is a
(1) state jail felony if committed in a building other than a habitation; or
(2) felony of the second degree if committed in a habitation.
(d) An offense under this section is a felony of the first degree if:
(1) the premises are a habitation; and
(2) [amended 9/1/95] any party to the offense entered the habitation with intent to commit a felony other than felony theft or committed or attempted to commit a felony other than felony theft.
Before 9/1/95 (d)(2) provided:
(2) any party to the offense entered the habitation with intent to commit a felony other than felony theft.

That's jacked up. I guess the moral of the story as keep your toys in your garage. If he's running out of your garage you're ok, but if he didn't get the stuff from your garage it better be night time.

I think we need to make some changes to the laws.

If I leave my weedeater out on my property and someone comes by and jacks me for it then I'm authorized to use "force" but if they take two steps into my garage and nab it off the rack then it jumps to "deadly force." That's really messed up. It should be the same for both IMO.

jacked:To get robbed, mugged, rolled or beaten up by someone.
From Urbandictionary.com

[seamusTX]

OK. You can write to your representatives, but the law is what it is at least until 2009.

Theft of unattended property is much different from robbery and burglary of a habitation. The law treats robbery and burglary more seriously because of the threat of injury to a person.

- Jim

[KRM45]

Now, I can't say I would personally shoot someone in head for making off with my garden hoe, but I just might put some lead in their buttocks. My intent may not be to kill then at that point, but I wouldn't lose sleep if they died from the wound. If you don't nip that stuff in the bud when it happens the next thing you know they're stealing your car and then breaking into your house to make off with your green eggs and ham and lord knows what else.

Wow

I sure hope this is said toung in cheek...

The use of deadly force is just that. You will not have the opportunity to say in court that you were just trying to wound him, you know as punishment for taking your stuff...

[Mage34]

Now, I can't say I would personally shoot someone in head for making off with my garden hoe, but I just might put some lead in their buttocks. My intent may not be to kill then at that point, but I wouldn't lose sleep if they died from the wound. If you don't nip that stuff in the bud when it happens the next thing you know they're stealing your car and then breaking into your house to make off with your green eggs and ham and lord knows what else.

Wow

I sure hope this is said toung in cheek...

The use of deadly force is just that. You will not have the opportunity to say in court that you were just trying to wound him, you know as punishment for taking your stuff...

Shoot to STOP the action....not to punish.....

[Right2Carry]

This is what I get from the tone/words in the article:
The homeowner didn't shoot the guy for stealing tools from his shed. He shot the BG when he dropped the tools and advanced toward him.
A person advancing on you when you have a gun pointed at them is up to no good.

I agree 100%.

After reading the article I had to ask myself "What would I do if..." . A few years ago I would have aggressivley gone outside as well. Several years ago I came home to find my house broken into. After calling my girlfriend a the time and having her call 911, telling them that I was there and armed, I began clearing the house. Now I knew full well that there were loaded firearms inside. Even if they didn't come with a gun I could bet that they had at least a couple now. Not one of my finer moments in retrospect.

I guess looking at the situation with the little information that we have it's easy to make assumptions. If you are holding someone at gunpoint and they continue to advance on you, then force of some sort is appropriate, I agree. The questions is do you put youself in that situation to begin with? Pride can and will get you killed if you let it cloud your judgement. For me, at this point of my life, I belive that it's better to avoid the confrontation if at all possible. What if the thief was armed? Better to let the LEO's discover that, right? For me I have to think what would I do as the assailant if approached by me. I am not a little guy, so it's possible that the BG might actually act more aggressively if I approach him. There is no absolute right answer. I like debating it though because it's help me to formulate a plan.

You better watch out with thinking that goes outside the norm here. Pretty soon someone will be calling you an ANTI and Liberal for your differing views.

I will only shoot for defense of myself or loved ones, and depending on the situation a call for help. I will not take a life for material things that can be replaced with a phone call to the insurance company. As with all rules there are exceptions and I reserve the right to change my mind at any given moment.

THE CHOICES WE MAKE ARE THE ONE WE HAVE TO LIVE WITH!

[T3hK1w1]

SC1903A3, I was just about to ask if you knew the area this took place in. BTW, gun is great, looooong post upcoming concerning it

[LedJedi]

Now, I can't say I would personally shoot someone in head for making off with my garden hoe, but I just might put some lead in their buttocks. My intent may not be to kill then at that point, but I wouldn't lose sleep if they died from the wound. If you don't nip that stuff in the bud when it happens the next thing you know they're stealing your car and then breaking into your house to make off with your green eggs and ham and lord knows what else.

Wow

I sure hope this is said toung in cheek...

The use of deadly force is just that. You will not have the opportunity to say in court that you were just trying to wound him, you know as punishment for taking your stuff...

Shoot to STOP the action....not to punish.....

I didn't say a scrap about punishing. i said nip it in the bud.

nip it in the bud: it means to stop someting before it grows/gets worse. sort of like nipping a flower when it's still a bud so it can't grow. Urbandictionary.com

I don't care one way or the other that he learns his/her lesson so long as they put my gear down. That is the definition of stopping. To cease doing what you were doing (running off to the pawn shop with my stuff). I might think about yelling stop once or twice, but i'm not going to ask nicely and make him a pot of tea. If it's justified I will use the amount of force necessary to stop the situation. His moral lessons are the business of his mommy and his daddy. Not mine.

I don't care if it's a cell phone, a wallet, or 5 year old rusted out rims in my back yard. It's still theft, it still doesn't belong to them. In one way or another I paid for it, they didn't. I will defend that.

I wouldn't miss a wink of sleep. They made the choice to take from me or mine. If they have a problem with the consequences they should have considered that before they tried jacking me. If that attitude makes me less moral or less human then i'm A-OK with that.

[Hamourkiller]

The homeowner, who told police that he has had a spate of robberies at his home, confronted the man as he was exiting the backyard with an armful of tools, police said.


How many roberies must he suffer before shooting this scum? Do you wait until he harms you or a loved one?

To all who would not shoot the thief just for stealing, how many trips to your homestead are you willing to tolerate? Are you willing to let him build his courage until he gets into your house? The repeat offenses drove the man to protect himself and his family, he was smart enough to see more was comming and he headed it off.

Better to stop trouble in the yard not wait until it is in the house!