Question on private sale of firearm refund

[n5wd]

I personally would never sell or buy a firearm without a bill of sale. Texasguntrader has a very adequate form you can download and use. To be honest at age 71 I have never sold a gun, I only buy. I have never had a lemon or bad purchase. If the seller in this case said the only defect was a ding and he has no bill of sale that said "as is" than he is responsible if there is more than just a ding wrong with the firearm. My personal reputation is worth more than having a seller think he was cheated. I know buyer beware and all that but the advertisement said only a ding and that's the only written defect. I think the guy will win in small claims if he persues that. Maybe I am too much of a sucker but I don't want someone feeling they were cheated in a sale by me and personally I have the finances to be magnanimous.

I disagree that the OP would lose in small-claims court, rotor, and while I understand exactly the feeling of 'my good name' that you're financially able to magnanimously* maintain, I don't think the OP would be held to those standards in court. In Texas, unless a warranty is offered by the seller, and accepted by the purchaser, on used personal property, there is no expectation that a warranty is given with the sale. As long as the OP didn't KNOWINGLY defraud the purchaser, I don't think the 'good angel' on his should should complain too much.

To the OP - I think you're correct in not offering him the refund. If you wanted to be big about it, take the advice to have it looked over by a third-party gunsmith (not the one that the buyer suggests, unless you know them to do good work), but I also don't think you're obligated to do that.

Going to small-claims court is no big deal on either side. If it DOES happen, just follow the steps to respond, don't miss a court date (else you WILL be found at fault) and be prepared to knowledgeably present your information about the AR to a layman, using layman's terms, so they'll understand what the hooha is all about.

G'luck!


* I've been waiting all week to be able to use that word! Thanks, rotor, for laying it up there for me to follow through with!

[baron]

When I heard there was no contract or bill of sale, the on one shoulder said to report the gun stolen and see how that works out for the guy threatening to sue. However, the on the other shoulder said that's sinking to his level. The also told me with nothing in writing there's no implied warranty of merchantability unless the seller is a dealer, but is not a lawyer and neither am I.

[ddurkof]

I have dealt with small claims court on other things and it is easy to win, IF you are right.

Most used items are sold as is, if there is no written guarantee. He would have to prove that it was:

1. defective
2. a reasonable person would have known this and then hid it from the buyer

To prove this in court, he has to hire an expert to testify. This gets expensive. You get to cross examine the expert and make them prove that they are an expert.

One more thing is he has not given you a demand for payment that is acceptable in a Texas court of law. "I sent an email" doesn't meet the standard of service. You have to give notice by certified mail and regular mail, or have some third uninterested party serve you with the demand. The demand normally includes a reasonable time to respond. I normally give ten business days from the date of service of the demand letter.

Along with cross examining his expert even if he wins you can appeal it to county or district court. Not to mention asking for continuances.

Also, if he does sue you, file a counter suit and remember to ask for attorney's fees in your original petition. He will realize that if he loses it could get real expensive for him.

If he happens to send you a demand letter, respond with a general denial of the allegations. I would also include a level of discovery so that you can ask interrogatories prior to going to court. Make sure you send him the denial by certified and regular mail. At this point in time can he even prove the gun that he claims you sold him is the gun in his possession? You could testify that you do not recognize the weapon that is the same one you sold him. How could he prove otherwise?

You also have no proof that he did not use the weapon in a crime. Once the weapon left my possession, it is sold.

Most IMPORTANTLY now that he has threatened you with a law suit, have no further communications with him. Don't return emails. If he calls, do not talk to him. Tell him to put all correspondence in writing.

Good luck.

[tool4daman]

I'm late posting on this- but I agree with the poster on the first page who said "tell him to pound sand". He probably won't take you to court. If he does, you will probably win. "Buyer be ware"- he should have inspected it more closely. He had it in his possession long enough that he could have done anything with it (replaced parts, etc.).

And if you do go to court- you'll get a day off of work from that abysmal God forsaken hole where you work. Maybe you can call me as a character witness so I don't have to go into that place either. (Before anyone gets mad at me for calling the place the OP works a hole, I should note that I work there with him. I can verify it is a hole.)

[TheDude]

What raised the flag for me is his assertion, "the barrel was drilled through for the front sight post".

Yup, same reason I asked about it - I'd love to know what exactly he means.

It almost sounds like he is talking about the taper pin holes. If you aren't familiar with the AR platform I guess that could look strange but if he is the one that took it off, then he had to drive the pins out. You would think he would understand the purpose they serve after that.

[WildBill]

I'm late posting on this- but I agree with the poster on the first page who said "tell him to pound sand". He probably won't take you to court. If he does, you will probably win. "Buyer be ware"- he should have inspected it more closely. He had it in his possession long enough that he could have done anything with it (replaced parts, etc.).

And if you do go to court- you'll get a day off of work from that abysmal God forsaken hole where you work. Maybe you can call me as a character witness so I don't have to go into that place either. (Before anyone gets mad at me for calling the place the OP works a hole, I should note that I work there with him. I can verify it is a hole.)

[gringo pistolero]

Most IMPORTANTLY now that he has threatened you with a law suit, have no further communications with him. Don't return emails. If he calls, do not talk to him. Tell him to put all correspondence in writing.

Don't argue with him. Don't tell him to pound sand. Go dark until/unless you get served.

[carlson1]

It smells like a scam.

I would move on and never look back.

[Gunner4640]

Sold is sold. it's a used gun I would never hand over any cash without inspecting it from top to bottom and maybe even taking it to the range to test fire

[jmra]

Sold is sold. it's a used gun I would never hand over any cash without inspecting it from top to bottom and maybe even taking it to the range to test fire

It's on the buyer to know what he is buying.

[Gunner4640]

I hope we hear what hapened to this case.

[cb1000rider]

It's on the buyer to know what he is buying.

It's also on the seller to accurately describe what he's selling. If there are deficiencies or problems and the seller knowingly or unknowingly (in the OPs case) omits something, then that's where problems occur.

It's not reasonable for the buyer to field strip the AR on-site or be able to spot all of the potential damage, nor would you want your buyer to strip something you are selling. As such, there is some middle ground - and different people have different standards of "good condition".

There are a couple possibilities here:
1) The gun had some minor issues, as indicated and the OP didn't recognize them.
2) The buyer doesn't know that much about ARs and has some confusion.
3) The buyer actually damaged the gun.

Maybe some combination.

Personally, I've got a policy that applies to anything and everything I sell: If you don't like it, bring it back in a reasonable amount of time. If it's brought back in the same condition, I'll give you a full refund. It doesn't matter why you bring it back. I do this for two reasons:
1) This is the way that I want to be treated, so I treat others that way.
2) It's never worth my reputation to have a dispute over a sale if the item is returned in the same condition that it was sold.

I get very very few items back. Sometimes just telling them that you're happy to take it back resolves the issue. I will admit that once I sold something that didn't arrive in the condition that I advertised it in and I paid that person pack, covered return shipping, and added some for his time/trouble.

I've had people buy things from me years later - at random - when they recognize who it is, things get a lot easier.

OP, if the roles were reversed what would you want? My policy is apparently different than yours... And I'd stand firm with you if the firearm was damaged in any way by the purchaser, but if not - and in the same condition that it was sold in... I understand buyer beware, but I know that I've got higher standards than that.

[cb1000rider]

To prove this in court, he has to hire an expert to testify. This gets expensive. You get to cross examine the expert and make them prove that they are an expert..

He doesn't have to have an expert anything. It's small claims. He can simply show the court. If a reasonable person can determine that something was stripped or missing then likely that is all that is necessary.

[Keith B]

To prove this in court, he has to hire an expert to testify. This gets expensive. You get to cross examine the expert and make them prove that they are an expert..

He doesn't have to have an expert anything. It's small claims. He can simply show the court. If a reasonable person can determine that something was stripped or missing then likely that is all that is necessary.

You thnk they will let him bring a gun into the court? Probably not.

[cb1000rider]

You thnk they will let him bring a gun into the court? Probably not.

I wouldn't think so either, depending on level of disassembly. Photos / Videos work too. Hiring an expert witness is not necessary. Getting a receipt from a gun smith might work.