Red Light Camera

[gigag04]

Many of those systems are controlled by a person. They record the violation and the processor (sometimes LEO) watches and confirms the infraction.

That person would be your accuser.

The situation is ittle different than watching a dope deal in a public place via camera, except being a civil issue, the burden of proof is lower.

Before the hecklers load up, please note I am not expressing an opinion of RLC's.

[ShootDontTalk]

So red light cameras take facial photos as well? Even if a drug bust is on camera and witnessed, how would you get a conviction without someone identifying the defendant by some provable testimony? Numerous people say they have gotten red light fines when they were not driving the vehicle. The fines seem to be based upon whose name is on the registration, not who is actually driving. If that was accepted practice, an officer could ticket anyone they liked who happened to be in the car for a traffic infraction. Therein lies the rub.

Personally, I believe in enforcement the old fashioned way. If there is a particularly dangerous intersection post an officer there. Let him write tickets. I have faith in LEO's. I have somewhat less in self-serving bureaucrats and private companies who make money based on how many fines are issued. I know it costs. Let the politicians figure a way to put more officers on the force and quit wasting money on pet projects. BTW more and more court decisions are going against RLC's.

[strider67]

... I mailed in the $75 fee grabber fee ...

That's what I call them, FEE GRABBERS! I got one of these supposed "legal" tickets a few months back, turning onto an access road, in an unpopulated area of the metroplex, with a half-mile of visibility. Regardless of the fact that I did not come to a complete 100% stop, the thing that burned me was the $75. I have not had a moving or non-moving traffic violation in years and I think that should come into play at fine assessment time. Good guy, first offense-$25 (kind of like a warning). Repeat offender- $75.

I am 100% for the betterment of our PDs, but find another way to buy a whole bunch of really cool stuff that I will never have an opportunity to play with...

[Chris]

I find it fascinating that some here advocate just glibly complying with what is clearly an unconstitutional act (violating the 5th and 6th Amendments) by complying with a demand to pay a fine from a red light camera.

Clearly to who, you? The US 7th circuit court of appeals issued a ruling a few years ago and found it all quite legal. I'm not sure if you know how the courts work, but that's just under the US supreme Court where most case law is established.

[Tireshred]

I use PhotoBlocker Spray (google it), I sprayed 20-30 coats on a Saturday to my bikes, truck and wife's SUV plates. I've been "flashed" 5 times before Houston pulled the cameras and never received a ticket. It works.

[ShootDontTalk]

I find it fascinating that some here advocate just glibly complying with what is clearly an unconstitutional act (violating the 5th and 6th Amendments) by complying with a demand to pay a fine from a red light camera.

Clearly to who, you? The US 7th circuit court of appeals issued a ruling a few years ago and found it all quite legal. I'm not sure if you know how the courts work, but that's just under the US supreme Court where most case law is established.

This doesn't need to degenerate into a personal argument, but a simple Google search will reveal several state and federal court decisions made subsequent to the 7th Circuit decision that hold RLC's unconstitutional. And yes, I do know how the court system works.

[Rifleman55]

They put some of those stupid cameras on a major highway and for the first few months they had a bunch of rear end collisions, as far as I an concerned they can put all of them where the sun don't shine.

[gigag04]

So red light cameras take facial photos as well? Even if a drug bust is on camera and witnessed, how would you get a conviction without someone identifying the defendant by some provable testimony? Numerous people say they have gotten red light fines when they were not driving the vehicle. The fines seem to be based upon whose name is on the registration, not who is actually driving. If that was accepted practice, an officer could ticket anyone they liked who happened to be in the car for a traffic infraction. Therein lies the rub.

Personally, I believe in enforcement the old fashioned way. If there is a particularly dangerous intersection post an officer there. Let him write tickets. I have faith in LEO's. I have somewhat less in self-serving bureaucrats. I know it costs. Let the politicians figure a way to put more officers on the force and quit wasting money on pet projects. BTW more and more court decisions are going against RLC's.

I'm pretty sure there is a provision to pass the fine on to whatever authorized user was in the car.

Much like toll infractions, the registered owner is responsible at the end of the day.

[ShootDontTalk]

You are correct. However, just because someone institutes a fine program to make it "legal" does not make it constitutional. And that is probably why so many people are up in arms about RLC's. That and the fact that unlike every other municipal fine I am aware of, RLC's are administered and collected by private companies. If even 10% of the things you read on websites seeking support to remove RLC's are really true, the thuggery from employees of the companies that enter into contracts with cities for RLC's smack of organized crime more than honest business. From my reading anyway.

And don't get me started on toll road fines. In Houston, folks all over the country who have never been to Houston have gotten fines from toll authorities. I imagine it is only a matter of time before the political heat gets too high. The news media has a field day with such shining examples of bureaucratic tomfoolery.

[pancho]

The fines seem to be based upon whose name is on the registration, not who is actually driving.

So are parking ticket fines.

[ShootDontTalk]

The fines seem to be based upon whose name is on the registration, not who is actually driving.

So are parking ticket fines.

And if they were enforced and collected by private companies, like RLC's are, a lot of people would be equally upset. Perhaps I didn't make what I said clear. RLC's are operated by private corporations, not municipalities. A parking ticket is issued by a PD and collected as a fine by the city. Can anyone name any city/county/state/federal fine whose enforcement and collection is entrusted to a private company? I can see cities using private firms (mostly law) to collect taxes or audit, but to issue fines?

Does it bother anyone besides me that the lion's share of the revenue from RLC's goes to a company and not a city? The more tickets the RCL company issues, the more money they make. Is a company in Arizona that makes their bottom line from RLC fines really more interested in traffic safety than profit? The combination of factors is what bothers me.

Can anyone say with absolute certainty that one day CHL applicants would not be denied a license because of an unpaid RLC fine issued and collected by a company in another state, rather than a governmental entity? As usual, just my opinions.

[C-dub]

I've had my picture taken by one of these things twice. The first time, I entered the intersection while the light was green and waited to make a left turn. Since it wasn't clear or safe to do so while other cars were coming at me I wasn't able to complete that turn until the light turned red and the oncoming traffic stopped. The second time was when I had stopped at a red light and after cross traffic had passed I made a right-on-red turn.

Neither time did I receive a ticket in the mail. I just assumed that a person reviewed the photos and determined what I did was legal and chose not to issue the citation.

[tomtexan]

The fines seem to be based upon whose name is on the registration, not who is actually driving.

So are parking ticket fines.

And if they were enforced and collected by private companies, like RLC's are, a lot of people would be equally upset. Perhaps I didn't make what I said clear. RLC's are operated by private corporations, not municipalities. A parking ticket is issued by a PD and collected as a fine by the city. Can anyone name any city/county/state/federal fine whose enforcement and collection is entrusted to a private company? I can see cities using private firms (mostly law) to collect taxes or audit, but to issue fines?

Does it bother anyone besides me that the lion's share of the revenue from RLC's goes to a company and not a city? The more tickets the RCL company issues, the more money they make. Is a company in Arizona that makes their bottom line from RLC fines really more interested in traffic safety than profit? The combination of factors is what bothers me.

Can anyone say with absolute certainty that one day CHL applicants would not be denied a license because of an unpaid RLC fine issued and collected by a company in another state, rather than a governmental entity? As usual, just my opinions.

It's all about the money and nothing else. If it's one thing that America hasn't realized yet, it's the word greed. G-R-E-E-D. This world is driven by greed and nothing else. It's all about seeing how much money they can squeeze out of each and every individual. Greed is more addicting than any drug known to man. The world did not used to be this way. Perfect example. It was in the news today. Hockey Fans Sue: Arena's $7 Beer Holds Same as $4 Beer Greed and deception.