Guy acts like commando on river to scare people

[casingpoint]

I believe you will find federal law trumps state law where it concerns navigable running waterways. although some legal ground remains to be covered for full precedent.

[mr surveyor]

the only cases I can certainly confirm where fed law supercedes Texas law concerning disposition of land and or waterways is in shared state or international boundaries, or in lands set aside as National parks or National forests . Texas retained sovereignty of its lands and waters when taking statehood. Generally in the case of waterways, particularly small streams and creeks, land owners can, and do share ownership to the center of the stream, although the water in the stream may be considered shared by the public, particularly land owners downstream that may depend on the water for agricultural needs. Although the feds do wrench certain control away from the state in certain matters concerning their interpretation of "wetlands", most laws goverening Texas waterways are still State of Texas. The mention of the "gradient boundary" by Mr. Jacob Staff is an interesting subject. This became the model for establishment of the boundary line between the State and the upland uwners as a result of the settlement of a 1930's (petroleum related) boundary suit between the State of Texas and the State of Oklahoma (mainly the Federal government using Oklahoma). This case actually went back to the original description of the claimed boundaries of the Republic of Texas, which unfortunately was interpreted to intend the South bank of the Red River. An engineer/surveyor, Col. Arthur A. Stiles, was instructed by the Federal government to determine a proper and reproducable method of establishing a boundary line on a dynamic physical monument such as a river bank. After the state/federal border issue was settled, the State of Texas did adopt the method of Stile's gradient boundary as a means by which to determine boundaries of navigable rivers, but the state does have control of those waterways, not the federal government. Consider the Sabine River Authority, or the Trinity River Authority, or others that control the use, quality, safety, etc., of those watershed areas. They are state agencies, not federal. In the case of other states that were originated from the federal domain, i.e. "public lands", the federal government did/does retain the water as well as any unpatented lands. This includes states that originated from conquest as well as purchase. Texas was never taken by conquest, nor purchase by the federal government. The U.S. government did purchase several million acres of our previously claimed panhandle that extended northward to Wyoming, prior to statehood, which allowed the "Republic" to pay off many of it's debts and retain it's sovereignty over the land and waterways.

I know there are attornies on this forum that can probably better describe this subject (with the exception of the boundary determination procedures), and hopefully one will take the opportunity.

I am open to be corrected if I am wrong.

[Jacob Staff]

mr surveyor, I believe you nailed it.

Texas has many unique land laws because of our history.

State of Oklahoma v. State of Texas 258 U.S. 574

Now I'm wondering if I know Jacob Staff professionally???

It is very possible that we have met, I am in the Houston area. Did you make it down to The Woodlands last year?


Welcome aboard!!

[mr surveyor]

mr surveyor, I believe you nailed it.

Texas has many unique land laws because of our history.

State of Oklahoma v. State of Texas 258 U.S. 574

Now I'm wondering if I know Jacob Staff professionally???

It is very possible that we have met, I am in the Houston area. Did you make it down to The Woodlands last year?


Welcome aboard!!

No, we didn't make that trip. We did make the trip year before last down to Silsbee to see Darrel and Nedra, and did their float trip seminar on the gradient boundary. That was a blast. By the way, I don't recall seeing you on the POB board recently, or did you change your sign in name in the last couple of years?

J.D.

[pbandjelly]

I believe you will find federal law trumps state law where it concerns navigable running waterways. although some legal ground remains to be covered for full precedent.

ah hm hm hm

No, laws don't "trump" other laws.

no, really, he said it.

I digress.

[90north]

BTW, you don't "take the test" to become a SEAL before joining the Navy. You join the Navy, go to boot camp, go to the fleet or an "A" school to earn a rate (That's a job/MOS) work hard. After 2-3 yrs you can apply for the teams, after several different interviews, physical tests, and a little luck you may attend BUDS.

[Jacob Staff]

No, we didn't make that trip. We did make the trip year before last down to Silsbee to see Darrel and Nedra, and did their float trip seminar on the gradient boundary. That was a blast. By the way, I don't recall seeing you on the POB board recently, or did you change your sign in name in the last couple of years?

J.D.

I bet that was a fun seminar.

I decided to try my hand at civil engineering design a couple of years ago and have not done any surveying for awhile and stopped going to the POB board. I need to get back on there and at least keep up to date.

Land surveying has a way of getting in your blood and I'm sure I will return to it someday but I enjoy learning new engineering stuff for now.

[NcongruNt]

BTW, you don't "take the test" to become a SEAL before joining the Navy. You join the Navy, go to boot camp, go to the fleet or an "A" school to earn a rate (That's a job/MOS) work hard. After 2-3 yrs you can apply for the teams, after several different interviews, physical tests, and a little luck you may attend BUDS.

Maybe his recruiter spun the ASVAB as a precursor to getting into the SEALS. I guess technically it would be, as everyone has to take it anyway. My experience with many recruiters is that they'll spin anything into what you want to hear.

I took the ASVAB in high school along with a bunch of classmates. I got 98/99 on the thing, and didn't stop hearing from recruiters for another 2 years or so. The Navy was the most persistent of the bunch. At first they tried to cater my photography interests, saying I could do photography for the Navy. Once they got the idea that I was only interested in doing aesthetic/artistic photography, they switched to my science interests and told me they wanted me to become a Nuclear Technician, with the promise of making all kinds of money after I got out of the service.

I'm not made to be a soldier, not in peacetime anyway. I'd gladly fight along with my countrymen to defend my nation if something along the lines of WWII were to transpire. Otherwise, I'm not receptive to taking orders blindly, and I knew this when the Navy was trying to recruit me. Unfortunately, I was only a high school kid and wasn't nearly as adept and forward in my expression as I am today. The calls probably would have stopped much earlier, had I been able to articulate my thoughts and views to those recruiters at that time. I have many beefs with the way a lot of recruitment is done, and misleading kids as to how they will actually spend their military careers is but one of them. I speculate that this may be part of why this kid thinks he's taking some test to become a SEAL, when in fact it's probably the ASVAB.

[casingpoint]

The Texas Legislature is well know for getting it wrong. Navigation of moving water is a federal right, and relates to the Commerce Clause of the U.S. Constitution.

"In 1874 the U.S. Supreme Court held that the Fox River is a public river, explaining that rivers are public even if they have "rapids and sand-bars" and other "natural barriers" or "obstructions" to boating."
http://www.nationalrivers.org/states/co ... rights.htm

[mr surveyor]

and where in that link does it refer to any case law that would make one believe that the federal government has any jurisdiction over waterways within the interior of the State of Texas? We aren't Colorado, New Mexico, Illinois, or any other state. We were formerly a sovereign nation that retained control over our public lands and inland waterways.

Just for kicks, do a bit of research to find out the extents of our claim to coastal boundary in the Gulf

[KD5NRH]

I took the ASVAB in high school along with a bunch of classmates. I got 98/99 on the thing, and didn't stop hearing from recruiters for another 2 years or so. The Navy was the most persistent of the bunch.

I knew a guy who had to get his CO to tell them to buzz off...you'd think the on-base address would've been a clue, but no, they even addressed the letters to A1C Jones.

[KBCraig]

I took the ASVAB in high school along with a bunch of classmates. I got 98/99 on the thing, and didn't stop hearing from recruiters for another 2 years or so. The Navy was the most persistent of the bunch.

I knew a guy who had to get his CO to tell them to buzz off...you'd think the on-base address would've been a clue, but no, they even addressed the letters to A1C Jones.

Heh. I also scored 98/99 percentile on the ASVAB, then joined ROTC as a non-scholarship student when I was a sophomore. I received my commission, served 42 months of active duty, and then when I spent a month or two at my parents' home after ETS while hunting a job, I got a nastygram from Selective Service, warning me of the dire consequences if I didn't register.

*ahem*

1) I registered the same week I turned 18. My uncle was the postmaster in our small town, so it's not like I could avoid it.
2) I joined ROTC in college, voluntarily signed an Army contract, had over 7 years' combined active and reserve service, and was on Individual Ready Reserve by the time Selective Service "caught" me.
3) Registration is mandatory within 30 days of the 18th birthday. They "caught" me 7-1/2 years later.

[NcongruNt]

I took the ASVAB in high school along with a bunch of classmates. I got 98/99 on the thing, and didn't stop hearing from recruiters for another 2 years or so. The Navy was the most persistent of the bunch.

I knew a guy who had to get his CO to tell them to buzz off...you'd think the on-base address would've been a clue, but no, they even addressed the letters to A1C Jones.

Heh. I also scored 98/99 percentile on the ASVAB, then joined ROTC as a non-scholarship student when I was a sophomore. I received my commission, served 42 months of active duty, and then when I spent a month or two at my parents' home after ETS while hunting a job, I got a nastygram from Selective Service, warning me of the dire consequences if I didn't register.

*ahem*

1) I registered the same week I turned 18. My uncle was the postmaster in our small town, so it's not like I could avoid it.
2) I joined ROTC in college, voluntarily signed an Army contract, had over 7 years' combined active and reserve service, and was on Individual Ready Reserve by the time Selective Service "caught" me.
3) Registration is mandatory within 30 days of the 18th birthday. They "caught" me 7-1/2 years later.

Yeah, I got the same thing several years back. I registered for Selective Service and then several years later my dad told me that I'd gotten something about not registering in the mail. What a mess of a system that must be.

[cyphur]

These days, both in the Army and the Navy(maybe in the other branches also, but I can't comment on them), you have options to sign up for the opportunity to try out for their SOF component when you enlist. For new recruits in the Army, its known as the 18X enlistment option - you are an 11B until you pass SFAS and SFQC, then you are reclassed to an 18 series MOS.

In the Navy, during your initial entry training(whatever the Navy calls it now), you have the opporunity to attempt a screening phsyical which will Q/DQ you for BUD/S. If you pass, you can attend the next class that is open. Sometimes you move on to your rating school, I've heard of recruits who go straigh to BUD/S because the planets were in correct alignment and there was a slot open in a class that started quickly enough.


In any event, the battle hardened Instructors(because just about EVERY SOF operator who isn't in probation has seen combat now), will either fail his rear end in a quick minute, or they will take his enthusiasm, inject some resolve, temper it with judgement, and provide a little wisdom. He will mature a great deal in the process. Having worked with members from almost every facet of JSOC in my short life, fine individuals such as those leave a lasting mark.



That is, if he doesn't get shot dead in the water first.