Non US Citizens denied access at Bullet Trap Range?

[AEA]

I was informed by my Brother-In-Law that he attempted to take a couple of business associates from Slovakia to the Bullet Trap for some range time.

They were refused access based on "not being a US Citizen".

Some counter jockey there told them that they cannot even handle a gun at that range without being a US Citizen. My BIL has no guns of his own (he is a US citizen BTW) so he and his associates would have to rent guns and purchase ammo. But they were refused.

Is this something new? Are they just blowing smoke (and loosing business)?

Thanks.

[Beiruty]

Stay away from those indoor ranges, shoot at the same place where we met. Easy and up to 500 yrds.

[alvins]

i wouldnt be surprised honestly.top gun range tried to have me arrested because one guy their thought my paperwork for my silencer was fake.

even the hpd officer thought the employee was going way overboard with the situation.

how many people goto the gun range with their illegal silencer anyway?

Someone visiting from outside the country cant handle a gun?i consider it my duty as a texan to take anyone to the gun range who expresses interest in going.

[AEA]

Stay away from those indoor ranges, shoot at the same place where we met. Easy and up to 500 yrds.

Thanks Mike, but he has no guns and I was not with him.
He was just taking some business associates for a hour or so of fun on the range and was denied access.

[AEA]

Someone visiting from outside the country cant handle a gun?i consider it my duty as a texan to take anyone to the gun range who expresses interest in going.

I agree.......
I could not believe it myself, that's why I am asking here. I don't go to public ranges often, so I was a bit taken back to hear something like this.

Then I got to thinking that if it was really a ATF or some other alphabet agency rule that I was unaware of, maybe someone here would know.

Now I am thinking it is Bologna. Otherwise how would places like Thunder Ranch operate?

I have sent the OP to the Bullet Trap via their "Contact Us" section of their website. If I get a response, I will post it.

[Dadtodabone]

It's a matter of interpretation. Foreign visitors may not possess a firearm in the U.S. Some folks read possess as holding it in their hands, others read it as controlling the firearm. As an example, there are a couple of ranges in Las Vegas that have full auto rentals, a group of visitors from Japan drop by, they cycle through the visitors one on one with a range employee with them while they shoot. Who is in control/possession of the firearm? The visitor or the employee?
Some here might know of the dread BATF form 6! This form sets up the hoops foreign visitors have to jump through to bring their firearms and ammo into the country to compete at shooting matches. Ever hunted overseas? I have. My pro hunter sang a Warren Zevon tune when I broached the import/export issue with him. Lawyers, guns, and money. Filled out a 4473? What does it have to say about non-resident aliens?
While you may consider the Bullet Traps actions over the top, in todays regulatory nightmare atmosphere, they may have felt they were protecting their business. And got to be, perhaps, snotty because the visitors were never going to be customers.

[Dave's World]

AEA,

Was this by chance last Thursday morning? If so I just happened to be checking out when they came in. I heard them mentioned they were from Slovenia and I knew the answer they would get. I tried to take a couple of guys from Romania there a few months ago and was told the same thing. I should have suggested they go to Targetmaster, they allow non U.S. citizens to shoot. Just did not think of it.

Do I agree with it no, but it is store policy and the guys who work there have to abide by it. It's their job if they don't. They have several signs posted in the store indicating U.S citizenship required to shoot or rent firearms. They are erring on the side of caution, maybe a bit too much, But given the environment we live in I can understand.

If it was the same exchange i saw Thursday, It's a bit unfair to call them "counter jockeys". He was polite and just following company policy. I have been shooting there for quite some time and never had a problem. They are all good helpful people.

Next time I will be more helpful if I encounter something like this again. I would rather have someone come to this country and have a positive shooting experience than the opinion we are those guy crazy nuts they see in the news.

Sorry they did not get any range time.

[AEA]

Dave,
I just spoke to my BIL. It was last Thursday.

Thanks for the reply and info. I have not been in there for a very long time as I moved out of the area in 2005.

Apparently my BIL did not notice any signs and he took the info from the Employee as being a LAW (not a store policy) and that is how he described it to me. So appears there was some confusion in the delivery of the information.

This brings into question......what about Dual Nationals?
Example, My Son was born in Texas but lives in Canada. He is a Dual National and a Police Officer in Canada.

I wonder how they would classify him if he went in there to shoot and did not have a Texas (or other State) DL for them to hang on the wall when they assign a lane. And I guess that by their "Rules" he would have to have his US Passport with him to prove he was a Citizen.

We have a very nice range up in the Sherman area called Red River Firearms. We always go there when he comes to visit and there has never been any question about Nationality from those folks (and it's a much cleaner and better ventilated range).

As you say, there are other places that welcome non US Citizen's to shoot and I have informed my BIL that it was store policy and to take his business elsewhere when International Business Associates come for a visit.

Thanks again!

[alvins]

so if they are so paraniod about peoples citizenship are they checking everyone or just profiling?

one of my coworkers is hispanic. he doesnt even know any spanish and has no spanish accent what so ever.but people just assume he is an illegal or whatever else you want to profile about hispanics.

when i let people shoot my silencer you could say the same thing about possession vs who is in control of it.no one but me and my father are registered to posses our silencers but i have let others shoot them at the range. i dont honestly see why this is such a big deal.

[AEA]

[Dadtodabone]

so if they are so paraniod about peoples citizenship are they checking everyone or just profiling?

one of my coworkers is hispanic. he doesnt even know any spanish and has no spanish accent what so ever.but people just assume he is an illegal or whatever else you want to profile about hispanics.

when i let people shoot my silencer you could say the same thing about possession vs who is in control of it.no one but me and my father are registered to posses our silencers but i have let others shoot them at the range. i dont honestly see why this is such a big deal.

No profiling required. Every range that I've been to requires ID to buy a gun, rent a gun, use facilities, etc. as required by law, federal, state and local.
As an aside I found this info interesting,

Of FFLs nationwide, 56% of all dealers operated out of their homes. Of the remaining 44%, 25% operated out of commercial premises that were gun shops or sporting goods or hardware stores. The rest of the dealers were located in businesses that are not usually associated with gun sales, such as funeral homes, liquor stores, appliance repair or auto parts stores.

[alvins]

huh?i have never shown ID to shoot at any gun range ever.I have never had anyone ask to see it either.I have been to quite a few ranges in the houston area and never been asked to show my id.what federal law requires you to show ID to shoot at a gun range?

so if they are so paraniod about peoples citizenship are they checking everyone or just profiling?

one of my coworkers is hispanic. he doesnt even know any spanish and has no spanish accent what so ever.but people just assume he is an illegal or whatever else you want to profile about hispanics.

when i let people shoot my silencer you could say the same thing about possession vs who is in control of it.no one but me and my father are registered to posses our silencers but i have let others shoot them at the range. i dont honestly see why this is such a big deal.

No profiling required. Every range that I've been to requires ID to buy a gun, rent a gun, use facilities, etc. as required by law, federal, state and local.
As an aside I found this info interesting,

Of FFLs nationwide, 56% of all dealers operated out of their homes. Of the remaining 44%, 25% operated out of commercial premises that were gun shops or sporting goods or hardware stores. The rest of the dealers were located in businesses that are not usually associated with gun sales, such as funeral homes, liquor stores, appliance repair or auto parts stores.

[Keith B]

huh?i have never shown ID to shoot at any gun range ever.I have never had anyone ask to see it either.I have been to quite a few ranges in the houston area and never been asked to show my id.what federal law requires you to show ID to shoot at a gun range?

No federal law, but every rang I have been to takes your license and holds it while you shoot unless you have a membership, then they already have it on file.

[ajwakeboarder]

DFW gun had a group of college aged kids from Ukraine come rent their full auto Uzi when i was doing my CHL proficiency. They didn't seem to have a problem with it.

[Beiruty]

Elm fork is another good range. Pay the tab and go have fun, safely.