This kid took the VP's advise and got a shotgun...

[hillfighter]

http://news.yahoo.com/details-emerge-ca ... 31225.html

Gun Control at work.

[baldeagle]

I would agree that healthy minds can make the distinction between violent fantasy and reality pretty easily. Unfortunately, unhealthy minds don't see to do this as well, and the tactics and reflexes learned in the games do have applicability in the real world.

No they don't. This is a dangerous connection you're claiming. Grand Theft Auto doesn't teach you to drive, Call of Duty doesn't teach you to shoot a gun, IL-2 Sturmovik doesn't teach you to fly fighter planes, and Angry Birds doesn't do a darned thing to teach you about slingshots.

You can't be serious. We use flight simulators to teach people how to fly. We test and qualify pilots in them annually. We use video simulations to train soldiers how to engage the enemy tactically. Yet you think there is ZERO correlation between that and video games? You think that has no impact on a person's mind or how they might behave in the real world?

Grand Theft Auto might not teach you how to drive safely and responsibly but it can certainly influence someone's decision to steal a car "for the fun of it" and endanger many people. Your argument that we should use caution when assigning blame is valid, but to claim they have no impact at all is counter to the evidence we already have as well as general experience.

There is nothing that a human can do, if taken to an extreme, that will not influence future thoughts and decisions. Every interaction we have with the world, be it with people or things, subtly influences our future in ways that are very difficult to predict. For some the influence is very minor. For others it is profound. When taken to the extreme it can be life altering.

[SF18C]

Buy a shot gun!

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1:10 is the best!!

[Chris]

I would agree that healthy minds can make the distinction between violent fantasy and reality pretty easily. Unfortunately, unhealthy minds don't see to do this as well, and the tactics and reflexes learned in the games do have applicability in the real world.

No they don't. This is a dangerous connection you're claiming. Grand Theft Auto doesn't teach you to drive, Call of Duty doesn't teach you to shoot a gun, IL-2 Sturmovik doesn't teach you to fly fighter planes, and Angry Birds doesn't do a darned thing to teach you about slingshots.

You can't be serious. We use flight simulators to teach people how to fly. We test and qualify pilots in them annually. We use video simulations to train soldiers how to engage the enemy tactically. Yet you think there is ZERO correlation between that and video games? You think that has no impact on a person's mind or how they might behave in the real world?

Grand Theft Auto might not teach you how to drive safely and responsibly but it can certainly influence someone's decision to steal a car "for the fun of it" and endanger many people. Your argument that we should use caution when assigning blame is valid, but to claim they have no impact at all is counter to the evidence we already have as well as general experience.

There is nothing that a human can do, if taken to an extreme, that will not influence future thoughts and decisions. Every interaction we have with the world, be it with people or things, subtly influences our future in ways that are very difficult to predict. For some the influence is very minor. For others it is profound. When taken to the extreme it can be life altering.

Over 20 million copies of this game were sold. Did we see a spike in mass murder that correlates to the release of this game?

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[ftabangler13]

Im a 22 year old college student. I love me some Battlefield 3 for wind down time after classes get out. Gotta say, its a pretty cool experience when you get dropped in with a group of guys you dont even know and work feverishly, whatever the job may be ( healing players, repairing vehicles, taking overwatch, dropping ammunition packs) to win a game. When you can effectively communicate and have a true team to work together towards a common goal, its an absolute blast, not for shooting virtual players, but for the sense of community. What scares me is the 13 year olds who say nothing but irreverent hateful stuff at their own teammates for whatever reason, and contribute nothing. They arent there to work together. They arent there to win. I dont know a lot about psychology, but if someone as acting like that in public, it would be a cause for concern. I think children (and young adults') behavior in online gaming communities says more about whats going on in their head than anything. Its not the cause of a problem, but it can certainly be an indicator and an enabler of some abnormal social behavior (which has become frighteningly normal). Parents would rather drug their kids up or just use the virtual babysitter than actually take the time to parent them, which I think is the root of the problem.

[stevie_d_64]

Im a 22 year old college student. I love me some Battlefield 3 for wind down time after classes get out. Gotta say, its a pretty cool experience when you get dropped in with a group of guys you dont even know and work feverishly, whatever the job may be ( healing players, repairing vehicles, taking overwatch, dropping ammunition packs) to win a game. When you can effectively communicate and have a true team to work together towards a common goal, its an absolute blast, not for shooting virtual players, but for the sense of community. I think children (and young adults') behavior in online gaming communities says more about whats going on in their head than anything. Its not the cause of a problem, but it can certainly be an indicator and an enabler of some abnormal social behavior (which has become frighteningly normal). Parents would rather drug their kids up or just use the virtual babysitter than actually take the time to parent them, which I think is the root of the problem.

What scares me is the 13 year olds who say nothing but irreverent hateful stuff at their own teammates for whatever reason, and contribute nothing. They arent there to work together. They arent there to win. I dont know a lot about psychology, but if someone as acting like that in public, it would be a cause for concern.

Bingo!!!

Now of course if you have not experienced this, or recognized this, seen it first hand, your skepticism would be warranted, and welcome in my opinion...

I am in no way justifying, or somehow too caught up in any unreasonable, or immature position based upon my involvement with this gamer community, I do this because I enjoy the time I spend with my niece and nephew, and if this is what they are in to, I am not above getting down and dirty and participating...

But "ftabangler13" very much sees what I see and hear in these particular games, and the environment in there can, at times, be very socially unacceptable...

What we do about this, is anyones guess, but I would caution, as discussed in some other threads here in this forum, that the psychosis created by these games, if not monitored, controlled by the parents (guardians) does contribute to a decline in reality, in minds that are not mature enough to handle the graphic images, situations in younger folks...

We do not want the government coming in and dictating policy...The opposition IS trying to create a situation where the ends justify the means...Engineering the social fabric (culture) in a way that could damage us in their processes, which is their goal...

Bottom line, we need to be aware, and think outside the box on this issue, being minful of ways they can use this against us...

Just my opinion...

[bdickens]

I would agree that healthy minds can make the distinction between violent fantasy and reality pretty easily. Unfortunately, unhealthy minds don't see to do this as well, and the tactics and reflexes learned in the games do have applicability in the real world.

No they don't. This is a dangerous connection you're claiming. Grand Theft Auto doesn't teach you to drive, Call of Duty doesn't teach you to shoot a gun, IL-2 Sturmovik doesn't teach you to fly fighter planes, and Angry Birds doesn't do a darned thing to teach you about slingshots.

If you want to make the claim, then it extends just as well to movies and TV, including historical documentaries like on the History channel (indeed, I would say moreso, since many films depict actual events, rather than a kid juiced on Red Bull charging headfirst into a bunch of enemies in Battlefield 3).

Again, we must be VERY careful about oversimplifying the problems.

I think you may be misinterpreting what I said.

Use of video games does not cause violent behavior. However, excessive use of them by individuals who have mental health issues to start with can indeed desensitize them to the suffering caused by real violence. Furthermore, the games can help develop perceptual skills, tactical decision making, and hand / eye coordination that has application in real world environments. The military uses this medium for exactly these purposes, so I'm pretty sure it works as stated.

Before discounting this as unfounded, you may want to review what combat psychologist Col. Dave Grossman has to say on this subject in his very well regarded book On Combat.

Video games are also sharply different than movies or TV because they involve active decision making and physical action which impacts the outcome. This is a critical distinction between those media.

The subconscious mind can not distinguish between reality and imagination. This is what makes things like Neuro-Linguistic programming so powerful and why the training regimen of top athletes, musicians and the like includes visualization.

[bdickens]

You are spot on about this. Unfortunately, none of this matters to those who want to disarm the populace so that they can have COMPLETE CONTROL. If I were truly cynical, which I'm not; I'd suggest that the government and their gun grabber lackeys actually embrace those on the margin for their ability to provide the next "gun-induced incident", to prove the point that only the police and government should have guns.....

I am that cynical and that is exactly what the enemies of liberty do.

Notice how the latest round of gun control attempts got unveiled even before the bodies in Connecticut were even cold? That stuff was already written and this country's domestic enemies were just waiting for the right incident to unfold so they could use it to whip the public into a frenzy and drum up popular support.

The Left is hell-bent on depriving the American People of their liberties and assuming control over everyone's lives and if they have to kill your wife and children to do so, then so be it.

[K.Mooneyham]

You are spot on about this. Unfortunately, none of this matters to those who want to disarm the populace so that they can have COMPLETE CONTROL. If I were truly cynical, which I'm not; I'd suggest that the government and their gun grabber lackeys actually embrace those on the margin for their ability to provide the next "gun-induced incident", to prove the point that only the police and government should have guns.....

I am that cynical and that is exactly what the enemies of liberty do.

Notice how the latest round of gun control attempts got unveiled even before the bodies in Connecticut were even cold? That stuff was already written and this country's domestic enemies were just waiting for the right incident to unfold so they could use it to whip the public into a frenzy and drum up popular support.

The Left is hell-bent on depriving the American People of their liberties and assuming control over everyone's lives and if they have to kill your wife and children to do so, then so be it.

Now that is a statement I fully support (what I highlighted in red).

[ftabangler13]

Im a 22 year old college student. I love me some Battlefield 3 for wind down time after classes get out. Gotta say, its a pretty cool experience when you get dropped in with a group of guys you dont even know and work feverishly, whatever the job may be ( healing players, repairing vehicles, taking overwatch, dropping ammunition packs) to win a game. When you can effectively communicate and have a true team to work together towards a common goal, its an absolute blast, not for shooting virtual players, but for the sense of community. I think children (and young adults') behavior in online gaming communities says more about whats going on in their head than anything. Its not the cause of a problem, but it can certainly be an indicator and an enabler of some abnormal social behavior (which has become frighteningly normal). Parents would rather drug their kids up or just use the virtual babysitter than actually take the time to parent them, which I think is the root of the problem.

What scares me is the 13 year olds who say nothing but irreverent hateful stuff at their own teammates for whatever reason, and contribute nothing. They arent there to work together. They arent there to win. I dont know a lot about psychology, but if someone as acting like that in public, it would be a cause for concern.

Bingo!!!

Now of course if you have not experienced this, or recognized this, seen it first hand, your skepticism would be warranted, and welcome in my opinion...

I am in no way justifying, or somehow too caught up in any unreasonable, or immature position based upon my involvement with this gamer community, I do this because I enjoy the time I spend with my niece and nephew, and if this is what they are in to, I am not above getting down and dirty and participating...

But "ftabangler13" very much sees what I see and hear in these particular games, and the environment in there can, at times, be very socially unacceptable...

What we do about this, is anyones guess, but I would caution, as discussed in some other threads here in this forum, that the psychosis created by these games, if not monitored, controlled by the parents (guardians) does contribute to a decline in reality, in minds that are not mature enough to handle the graphic images, situations in younger folks...

We do not want the government coming in and dictating policy...The opposition IS trying to create a situation where the ends justify the means...Engineering the social fabric (culture) in a way that could damage us in their processes, which is their goal...

Bottom line, we need to be aware, and think outside the box on this issue, being minful of ways they can use this against us...

Just my opinion...

I think some of it ( a lot actually)can be attributed to anonymity over the internet, and these kids would not otherwise act like that in public, but since their parents dont take the time to look after them, it goes unchecked. I think most will probably grow out of it when they mature. I guess what scares me the most is the lack of responsibility.

[Gordie Howe]

I'm writing His Excellency El Vice Presidente and asking for advice of what brand, types of shells, ect.