AR thinking & Doing my homework.

[Richardc]

If you're just a plinker, 1:9 is perfectly fine. If you need to drop steel (or, um, other heavy targets) at 400-500m, you're gonna want to shoot 77gr heavies with a 1:7 twist.

Honestly, 1:9 is perfectly fine for 90% of the AR owners.

I had no issues dropping "heavy targets" at ranges up 600-700 by launching a 62gr out of my m16a4 which had a 1:7.
If you just plan on shooting nothing but cheap 55gr stuff 1:9 is fine, any thing else get a 1:7 you can do anything with it.
Also if your not going to be kicking in doors get a 20in upper 16s are cute and all tacticool, but they are loud and the loss in accuracy is not worth it. I have never had anyone out gun me with their 16 when I'm running my 20. That being said the collapsible stock is the best thing since sliced bread.

[longtooth]

Thanks for the heads up on barrel length. This would be a trade so I wont get to choose. It will be take it or leave it.
Yes I like the colapsables. Have 2 SKSs w/ them.

[remington79]

If you like a collapsible stock Windham doesn't stake the castle nut that holds the buffer tube to the receiver. If you just want a hobby grade AR they're ok but if you want a rifle for social work I'd go with something like a Colt or BCM. Someone mentioned ar15.com but I'd go to http://www.m4carbine.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for better information on rifles.

[mdoan300]

If you like a collapsible stock Windham doesn't stake the castle nut that holds the buffer tube to the receiver. If you just want a hobby grade AR they're ok but if you want a rifle for social work I'd go with something like a Colt or BCM. Someone mentioned ar15.com but I'd go to http://www.m4carbine.net" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; for better information on rifles.

This is good advice. There are alot of BTDT guys on m4c and they tend to have a short fuse when it comes to tolerating bad info.

[TheDude]

If you're just a plinker, 1:9 is perfectly fine. If you need to drop steel (or, um, other heavy targets) at 400-500m, you're gonna want to shoot 77gr heavies with a 1:7 twist.

Honestly, 1:9 is perfectly fine for 90% of the AR owners.

Also if your not going to be kicking in doors get a 20in upper 16s are cute and all tacticool, but they are loud and the loss in accuracy is not worth it. I have never had anyone out gun me with their 16 when I'm running my 20.

A longer barrel does not make a gun more accurate. It makes it easier to shoot accurately if using iron sights because of the longer sight radius but thats it. With red dot that doesn't matter. You will lose some velocity with a shorter barrel.

[OldCannon]

If you're just a plinker, 1:9 is perfectly fine. If you need to drop steel (or, um, other heavy targets) at 400-500m, you're gonna want to shoot 77gr heavies with a 1:7 twist.

Honestly, 1:9 is perfectly fine for 90% of the AR owners.

Also if your not going to be kicking in doors get a 20in upper 16s are cute and all tacticool, but they are loud and the loss in accuracy is not worth it. I have never had anyone out gun me with their 16 when I'm running my 20.

A longer barrel does not make a gun more accurate. It makes it easier to shoot accurately if using iron sights because of the longer sight radius but thats it. With red dot that doesn't matter. You will lose some velocity with a shorter barrel.

Right. Length really doesn't contribute to accuracy in any significant way. Stiffness, uniformity, chambering, proper twist rates -- these contribute to accuracy. Perhaps non-intuitively, shorter barrels can result in increased accuracy (to a point).

Good article here: http://www.accurateshooter.com/technica ... arrel-faq/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Sangiovese]

My wife has a Windham MPC and she really likes it. She has about 400 rounds through it with no problems. Based on her experience so far, she says that she would buy the same one again if she had the opportunity to go back and do it again. I'm sure there are better ARs out there, but I think it's a solid rifle with an attractive price point.

[cajunautoxer]

What's you limit on purchase? I'd pass on the WW

Well sir would like some facts as to why. Especially since all of the above have decent to good things to say about them.

Facts about ww.

-Old owner of bushmaster
-Re-hired old bushmaster builders as soon as no-compete was up
-Has a lame looking roll mark
-They work just like most ar's out there and have heard no bad things about cs
-Fit and finish is within spec
-1:9 is ok most like 1:7


If you are shopping look at palmetto, spikes, bcm all those are around the same price as a ww. Personally I think its a good ar but im turned off by the roll mark and for that reason alone would never buy one. There are many good ar's out there I would look at warranty and cs when making a decision.

Sputz

I just think there may be better options out there. Havn't heard anything about WW

[remington79]

Unless they changed the last I heard they only batch test their bolts and barrels, not individually like your higher tier carbines. Also look to see if it comes with the full auto bolt carrier instead of the lighter semi bolt carrier. A heavier bolt carrier (full auto) along with an H (should be stamped with an H) http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=4871 ... R-ASSEMBLY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (in case anyone is not sure what it looks like). You should also look at the extractor spring. I don't know what WW uses as I have never taken one apart. The new spec is a copper colored spring with a black rubber insert. http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=4840 ... G-ASSEMBLY" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Also look to make sure the gas key is properly staked to the bold carrier. It should have metal pushed in from the sides. I would stay away just because of the 1 in 9 twist.

[The Annoyed Man]

LT, when you get around to the optics, it is definitely worth it to spend the ducats for better quality glass if you can afford it. I would LOVE to have an ACOG. But, if you're like me and your eyes are failing you a bit and you aren't standing in tall financial cotton, here's a couple of alternatives I found yesterday that I really liked. I bought the second of the two, and I have a thread about it here: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=58145" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

1. Burris 1-4x24 with "firedot" reticle, mounted in a P.E.P.R. mount, with a Fastfire already mounted for $499 (Cabela's Page) SWFA sells this same package for $100 more! http://swfa.com/Burris-1-4x24-MTAC-30mm ... 53420.aspx
2. Burris's 5X AR-536 Prism Sight, mount included, plus sunshade, lens caps, accessory rails top and sides. This is a 36 mm objective lens as opposed to the 24 mm lens on the above optic. Here's the Burris web page for this site: BurrisOptics.com. I paid $399 for mine just yesterday, but I am unable to find it on the Cabela's website today.

SWFA told me a while back that this optic, and its little brother the AR-332 Prism Sight, are selling like hotcakes and people are having trouble keeping them in stock, so maybe that's why it's not shown on the Cabela's site today. What I can tell you is this: If I did not already own the Fastfire red dot to mount on top of the AR-536 for CQB use, I would have probably bought package #1 above. The Burris 1-4x24 MTAC 30mm Rifle Scope by itself retails for $399. The Fastfire red dot sight is another $200 on up. The P.E.P.R. mount sells for around $90 or so, so that combo package from Cabela's is a smokin' deal. Like I said, SWFA is asking $100 more for the same thing.



Versus what I bought:


Don't get me wrong, I really like what I have, and I already had a Fastfire I could mount on the optic, but if I didn't have that Fastfire, that other package would be a smokin' good deal.

[Sputz]

For optics I really like my aimpoint pro the 3 year battery life is amazing. My wife's ar has a vortex sparc which has been really nice with a vmx3 mag; I just need to find a decent mount for the vmx3. If it were for my rifle I'd go larue but since its hers I'm looking for a more budget friendly option. The 499 for the fast fire and 1-4 does sound like a good deal to me.

Sputz

[Sputz]

I would stay away just because of the 1 in 9 twist

1:9 twist is nato spec I see no problem with if if you are using it for 55gr-62gr bullets which is what is common out there and more than enough for the average joe. Now I went away from 1:9 to 1:7 so I could hunt with 75grn soft points. If your application needs 1:7 go for it, if not nothing is wrong with 1:9. And every time I see the word tier I cringe, but hey that's just me. I'm just surprised people aren't debating if its chromlined or not. Thats a whole other bag of worms you don't need to worry about either.

Sputz

[remington79]

I don't know about NATO but the US spec is 1 in 7. Like you said with that twist you can use 55 grain to 77 grain. I went to WW's webpage earlier and they said they chrome line the barrels and have the M4 feed ramps. they also said they test the bolts and barrels but they don't mention anymore if they batch test or do it individually. I know earlier this year they said they batch tested.

[The Annoyed Man]

My current AR barrel is a 1:9, and it shoots 55 and 62 grain bullets with reasonably good accuracy.......not match accuracy, but good practical accuracy. Since I stock M193 and M855 ammo in bulk, that is fine for me. And I've had no trouble finding 55 grain soft points for it for HD use. Also, there are a couple of good handloads I know of using 62 grain Sierra Gamekings.

That said, and although I don't feel "underarmed" by virtue of that barrel, I am probably going to go back to an M4 profile barrel (the current one is an HBAR) in the next year or so, and when I do I'll buy a chrome-lined (just to tick off Sputz ) 1:7 barrel. Right now the heaviest bullets I can shoot reliably are the 68-69 match bullets from Sierra or Hornady. It would be nice to have access to reliable use of the heavier bullets.

[Sputz]

My current AR barrel is a 1:9, and it shoots 55 and 62 grain bullets with reasonably good accuracy.......not match accuracy, but good practical accuracy. Since I stock M193 and M855 ammo in bulk, that is fine for me. And I've had no trouble finding 55 grain soft points for it for HD use. Also, there are a couple of good handloads I know of using 62 grain Sierra Gamekings.

That said, and although I don't feel "underarmed" by virtue of that barrel, I am probably going to go back to an M4 profile barrel (the current one is an HBAR) in the next year or so, and when I do I'll buy a chrome-lined (just to tick off Sputz ) 1:7 barrel. Right now the heaviest bullets I can shoot reliably are the 68-69 match bullets from Sierra or Hornady. It would be nice to have access to reliable use of the heavier bullets.

Well good thing you didn't say tier! I'm trying out adams arms melonited barrels mostly because I wanted a pinned on gas block instead of a bolt on one for my pistons and it was easier to just order both from them. Its pretty nice and pretty darn accurate. But then again Im not a milspec monkey or I would have stayed with di. Both middy and carbines I built out of spikes uppers and lower receivers.

Sputz