Interesting AR15 Accessory

[i8godzilla]

Interesting, but "Can't be fired" and "Shouldn't be fired"....BIG difference.

Well their website says, "...not intended to be fired when folded." The buffer spring and plug are captured by the folded stock. I don't see anything in the kit that would keep it from being fired if the stock were folded and the gun was cocked and loaded....such as, load the gun, safe it, fold the stock, unsafe the gun, and fire it......but I hate to think what would happen to the BCG and the rear of the receiver under recoil without the buffer system to absorb the impulse.

My only concern is that a discharge like that should NOT render the weapon inoperable. If it doesn't, then I think it's a great idea

I thoughts are that. if fired with the stock folded, all of the bolt recoil we be absorbed by the charging handle. Whether or not the charging handle and BCG will remain intact is not something I want to test. To quote an aviation phrase: "There are old pilots and bold pilots but not many old bold pilots." If the charging handle and BCG is able to survive the recoil, it would seem that you could slap it back into place with the palm of your hand.

[RSJ]

Interesting idea....

but still glad I've got that feature in my Sig 556
and it does fire folded or not

[Slowplay]

Interesting, but "Can't be fired" and "Shouldn't be fired"....BIG difference.

Well their website says, "...not intended to be fired when folded." The buffer spring and plug are captured by the folded stock. I don't see anything in the kit that would keep it from being fired if the stock were folded and the gun was cocked and loaded....such as, load the gun, safe it, fold the stock, unsafe the gun, and fire it......but I hate to think what would happen to the BCG and the rear of the receiver under recoil without the buffer system to absorb the impulse.

My only concern is that a discharge like that should NOT render the weapon inoperable. If it doesn't, then I think it's a great idea

I thoughts are that. if fired with the stock folded, all of the bolt recoil we be absorbed by the charging handle. Whether or not the charging handle and BCG will remain intact is not something I want to test. To quote an aviation phrase: "There are old pilots and bold pilots but not many old bold pilots." If the charging handle and BCG is able to survive the recoil, it would seem that you could slap it back into place with the palm of your hand.

Wouldn't the top of the BCG hit the receiver before the charging handle came into play? I'm not willing to perform a test to confirm either, but that's what it looks to me. The hammer should absorb a little bit of recoil, but the lack of the buffer and spring might leave you

ETA: I thnk the product is pretty clever and would consider getting one if I was more comfortable that it would work reliably.

[The Annoyed Man]

For me, the bottom line with this thing is concealment. I drive a mid-sized SUV (Pathfinder) and I can fit a carbine crosswise either in the back seat or behind the seats, but the case is pretty obvious as to what it is to anyone who cares to look in the windows. If I can make a carbine fit into something less conspicuous—like 74novaman's tennis racket case—then it A) takes up much less space, and B) is less of a temptation to thieves. That is my primary concern with having a carbine in my car. And my wife drives a Camry. So even though she has a trunk, it is a small trunk, and there needs to be room for other things in there. Plus, if you have time to get the rifle out of the trunk, you have time to deploy a stock.

If I need a gun chop chop, I'm carrying a pistol after all which I can deploy faster than even a folded AK in a bag. I'm not negating the advantages of having that capability that a folded AK permits over a folded AR, but this device costs $180, and a folding AK is going to cost upward of $500-$600........for one. I need two (one for me, one for my wife). I actually want to buy a couple of AKs with folding stocks some day, but other things keep coming up (new glasses, new bed, trip to Florida, medical bills, etc.). So for me, for now, this is an expedient solution to the problem. Since my wife and I already own two AR carbines, I'm willing to gamble that in any scenario where either of us might need a long gun, if we have the 5-10 seconds it is going to take to get it out of the bag, then an extra second to deploy the stock is not going to matter much.

At least that is my thinking.......flawed though it may be (just ask my wife)!

[rm9792]

Interesting, but "Can't be fired" and "Shouldn't be fired"....BIG difference.

1) Can you fire the rifle when folded?
2) If you can, will the operator be able to bring the rifle back to operating condition quickly?

1.) Technically, yes.
2.)No possible way in heck. If he survives the BCG exploding from the rear he will have to chase it down, find the charging handle then be very lucky it goes back in and works.

[Estand]

Sounds like TAM is going to test one out for us!

[OldCannon]

Interesting, but "Can't be fired" and "Shouldn't be fired"....BIG difference.

1) Can you fire the rifle when folded?
2) If you can, will the operator be able to bring the rifle back to operating condition quickly?

1.) Technically, yes.
2.)No possible way in heck. If he survives the BCG exploding from the rear he will have to chase it down, find the charging handle then be very lucky it goes back in and works.

I'm thinking that if the BCG penetrates the shooter's chest cavity, he won't have to worry about whether it can fire another shot

All kidding aside, it's clear from looking at the design that discharging the weapon while in the folded position would likely cause severe damage to the retaining plug. Even if it kept the BCG in place, it would likely be bent and no longer useful (and would make it incapable of being used in the correct position).

I think it's an interesting design, but it needs to be in the $110-$130 range to be interesting to purchasers though.

[Jumping Frog]

Interesting, but "Can't be fired" and "Shouldn't be fired"....BIG difference.

Well their website says, "...not intended to be fired when folded." The buffer spring and plug are captured by the folded stock. I don't see anything in the kit that would keep it from being fired if the stock were folded and the gun was cocked and loaded....such as, load the gun, safe it, fold the stock, unsafe the gun, and fire it......but I hate to think what would happen to the BCG and the rear of the receiver under recoil without the buffer system to absorb the impulse.

The ParaUSA version has a folding stock that can be fired while folded. Not sure what the differences are, however.

[Carry-a-Kimber]

I'm thinking the designers of the system should have put in some sort of "kill switch" to make the action inoperable while the stock is folded or else be prepared for a lawsuit.

[v-rog]

For me, the bottom line with this thing is concealment. I drive a mid-sized SUV (Pathfinder) and I can fit a carbine crosswise either in the back seat or behind the seats, but the case is pretty obvious as to what it is to anyone who cares to look in the windows. If I can make a carbine fit into something less conspicuous—like 74novaman's tennis racket case—then it A) takes up much less space, and B) is less of a temptation to thieves. That is my primary concern with having a carbine in my car. And my wife drives a Camry. So even though she has a trunk, it is a small trunk, and there needs to be room for other things in there. Plus, if you have time to get the rifle out of the trunk, you have time to deploy a stock.

If I need a gun chop chop, I'm carrying a pistol after all which I can deploy faster than even a folded AK in a bag. I'm not negating the advantages of having that capability that a folded AK permits over a folded AR, but this device costs $180, and a folding AK is going to cost upward of $500-$600........for one. I need two (one for me, one for my wife). I actually want to buy a couple of AKs with folding stocks some day, but other things keep coming up (new glasses, new bed, trip to Florida, medical bills, etc.). So for me, for now, this is an expedient solution to the problem. Since my wife and I already own two AR carbines, I'm willing to gamble that in any scenario where either of us might need a long gun, if we have the 5-10 seconds it is going to take to get it out of the bag, then an extra second to deploy the stock is not going to matter much.

At least that is my thinking.......flawed though it may be (just ask my wife)!

Chris, when you get it, I've got to see it! I'll be saving my pennies for this part.

[74novaman]

For me, the bottom line with this thing is concealment....If I can make a carbine fit into something less conspicuous—like 74novaman's tennis racket case—then it A) takes up much less space, and B) is less of a temptation to thieves. That is my primary concern with having a carbine in my car....So for me, for now, this is an expedient solution to the problem. Since my wife and I already own two AR carbines, I'm willing to gamble that in any scenario where either of us might need a long gun, if we have the 5-10 seconds it is going to take to get it out of the bag, then an extra second to deploy the stock is not going to matter much.

At least that is my thinking.......flawed though it may be (just ask my wife)!

Makes sense to me, though I will add a couple of my own thoughts to this just to give you something else to consider:

1) You are spot on about the amount of time it takes to deploy a long gun from a concealed position in a car. However, it is difficult to deploy a stock and use the weapon in a vehicle. Too long and cumbersome to wield efficiently. There may be a situation or time that calls for leaving the car and deploying a rifle, but I can also see a need for a rifle to be close at hand, concealed and ready to fire while in the vehicle (for example, trying to get back home during a riot or other disaster, throwing a towel over a long gun in the passenger seat). So I would think being able to fire folded is a pretty big plus for a "trunk gun".

2) By the time you purchase 2 of these AR hinges, you're basically at the price of 1 basic folding stock AK. About the best deal going on the market in folders right now is this: http://centerfiresystems.com/akagun-amd.aspx It was an even better deal when it was $400 even, but its still not a bad price. If you're going to drop that type of dough anyway, you could have 1 folding stock AK. If I remember correctly, you have an m1 carbine. Looks like folding stocks for those are ~$150 online. Its a bit more money to go AK+m1 paratrooper stock than 2 of these hinges, but you'd have 2 firearms capable of being fired more easily from within the vehicle without the necessity of deploying the stock.

Just another option that might fit your needs.

I do think its an interesting AR accessory, but for what you described as your needs, I am of the opinion that you are better served with other options.

[The Annoyed Man]

The ParaUSA version has a folding stock that can be fired while folded. Not sure what the differences are, however.

That looks like it has a different recoil system because there is no buffer tube at all.

[OldCannon]

74novaman is right. A "cheap" AK underfolder or M1 .30 cal carbine will serve you better. If only for the simple fact that, afterwards, the police are going to take your nice rifle away from you for evidence, whether or not you were in the right.

[The Annoyed Man]

74novaman is right. A "cheap" AK underfolder or M1 .30 cal carbine will serve you better. If only for the simple fact that, afterwards, the police are going to take your nice rifle away from you for evidence, whether or not you were in the right.

That fact alone negates using my beloved M1 Carbine. I'm not giving it up to officialdom.