FN Herstal 5.7 Pistol

[Carry-a-Kimber]

Yes, the 5.7 round is like a souped up .22.

So is an AR15.

Never heard of that round.

[mdoan300]

At 50 yards, I am accurate with my AR-15, but I'm a freaking rock star with my PS90 -- it's a tack driver.

[74novaman]

Is there some hidden script somewhere online for this topic?

I think I see the exact same thread...No matter what board I'm on, or how often it appears.

If you feel like the 57 is a good choice, have fun with it. If you don't, carry something else.

[SRH78]

...your 10mm will overpenetrate against human-sized targets unless you are using 10mm light loads. In that case, you might as well be shooting a .40S&W. Full house 10mm is far too much gun for use against humans - bears are more appropriate.

None of the service calibers are even remotely too much gun for humans. Also, full house 10mm do not necessarily penetrate more than light ones. Quite often, the faster you push a bullet, the less it penetrates because it upsets much faster. Penetration is highly dependant on bullet construction. A good hardcast bullet from a 38 will easily give a lot of excessive penetration. If a 10mm load overpenetrates, it isn't because you are pushing it too fast. It is because you are using the wrong bullet. As for the 10mm being a bear round, feel free to try it. I won't.

He said the round would go in straight 11", do one turn and then stop. Based on that , it didn't sound like there would be tumble effect.

Actually, this is exactly what "tumbling" is. It is the exact same thing that causes heavy trailers to jacknife. The back of the bullet has more mass and when the bullet hits resistance, that greater mass causes the back of the bullet to pass up the nose and then the bullet travels rear first. In the process, the bullet spends part of it's time sideways which increases the effective frontal area.

..."In regard to charges that hollow-point ammunition is “more lethal”, in an unpublished study of over 75 fatalities from hollow-point ammunition by the author, he was unable to demonstrate any death that would not have occurred if the bullet had been an all-lead bullet. As to increased severity of wounding, this is purely theoretical. To this day, the author cannot distinguish a wound by a hollow-point bullet from that by a solid-lead bullet of the same caliber until recovery of the actual bullet."

The goal in a defensive shooting is not to kill but to stop. A 22 is plenty lethal but I have seen rabbits run a long way after being hit in the vitals with a 22 rifle. They always ended up dead, but they certainly weren't stopped very quickly. Stopping is what counts in self defense. Also, I use to shoot rats out of my barn with a pellet gun. With pointed pellets, they always took off running. With flat nosed match pellets, they were anchored in their tracks. While the merits of the 9/40/45 are often very much overblown, obviously the size, weight, velocity, and shape of a bullet make some difference, especially when you get outside the 9/40/45. I agree that shot placement is the major factor but it isn't the only one. The effects of bullet shape and construction are magnified as velocity increases.

The fact that an individual can be mortally wounded, yet still be capable of aggressive actions and a threat, sometimes for a prolonged amount of time, is not appreciated by the public whose concepts of shootings is derived from television and the movies."

I completely agree. This is exactly why a 10mm is not "far too much gun for use against humans".

The Five-seveN pistol firing a nearly inch-long, tumbling projectile at nearly 2,600fps and 405ft-lbs of energy (EA's 28gr S4M) is more than sufficient to stop a human threat.

I wouldn't make that statement about any of the typical defensive handgun calibers. The example you gave about the officer shot with a 357, which is more powerful than the 5.7, should be proof of that. Also, you might want to double check the length of those 5.7 bullets. I am confident that you will find them to be much shorter than an inch. Also, if a bullet that tumbles is more effective than one which doesn't then so is a larger bullet or one that expands since they accomplish the same thing.

[WSimons]

I really agree to this not being a good CCW. Large and long, but with 20+1, I sure would not want to face one. I understand that due to the relatively light projectile, and the amount of energy, many if not all of the shots would cause a great deal of tumble.

I may have been dreaming, but I thought I saw a rifle in this caliber with a 50 round magazine. Now that sounds like fun.

The rifle in question was probably the FN PS90, a P90 semiauto clone with a longer civilian friendly barrel... Funky lookin' gun with great ergonomics.
Of course, there are some 5.7 AR uppers now available that take the PS90 mags (top load, bottom eject, just like the PS90/P90)

[seeker_two]

I really like the 5.7's performance in the P90/PS90 platform...it could be the best choice for a HD carbine...esp. for recoil-sensitive shooters. In a shorter barrel like the Five-seveN, I'm not so sure.

That said, I'd really like to see more major gunmakers & ammo makers jump on the 5.7 train. It would make a great small-game round. I'd love to have a Ruger Blackhawk Hunter in 5.7 as a coyote gun.....

[CC Italian]

LowGrainHighPain- I will concede about the 5.7 since you seem to know more but I must inform you that your info about most 10mm loads is incorrect. SRH78 is correct in saying that many penetrate less then you think. In fact in almost all loads from 135-180 grain the .40S&W will penetrate more then the 10mm but usually the hollow point will have more expansion in 10mm because of the increased velocity. I love 10mm but it is an over hyped round perpetuated on internet forums. It falls smack in the middle of .40 s&W and .41 mag ballistic wise and while I have carried hardcast 200-230 for woods protection I would not want to use it on even a black bear (can you say mag dump). If I ever had to shoot a bear or moose etc. I would want at least a .44mag in a handgun cartridge, if not a rifle round.

Here are two loads that use the exact same bullet but one is 10mm and the other is .40S&W. This is typical of 10mmvs.40S&W.

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/inde ... osler-jhp/

http://www.shootingillustrated.com/inde ... osler-jhp/

Unless you run at least 165 grain jhp you will have fragmentation in all 10mm rounds that are full house unless they are the Barnes bullets. 165 gold dots and 180xtp hold together well but even 155 gold dots will frag because the velocities are to much for the bullet. Think of it as 9mm vs 9mm+P+. It is not uncommon for +P rounds in 9mm to penetrate less then non +P but with more expansion. Same with the .40 vs 10mm. 10mm starts to shine with 180 grain+.

The 10mm myth of blowing holes through people like a laser is false!
Edit: In all reality 180 grain .40 cal bullets penetrate similar to 230 grain .45acp. The only difference is that 10mm rounds expand more like .45acp diameter if the don't fragment, which most do if not bonded or copper! 200 grain and above is a different story because now the sectional density is greater then a 230 grain .45acp but I reserve those for woods carry as well. Any 10mm hollowpoint up to 180 grain is fine for SD carry. Anything heavier is for the woods!

Like I said though. You seem to know more about the 5.7 so I will take your word on its ballistics. It was just a fun gun that was a blast to shoot but I just couldn't make my self pay all that money for it. That's all nothing against the caliber, it is definitely and interesting idea in a handgun!