I'm disturbed...

[texanron]

Sounds good to me Andy. I'll be interested to see what you come up with and try to find a place to take the challenge myself.
The coin idea sounds cool as well.

[TexasFlash]

I'm in...
Dave

[cbunt1]

Count me in. We're always in the market for a new course of fire for our IDPA matches, and the results should provide a good test bed for a course, given the diverse backgrounds and skill levels of most clubs!

[v-rog]

I'm definitely interested, Andy.

[Shoot_First]

Andy...sounds great to me and you are truly "disturbed." Along with TAM and gigag04, I really enjoy your posts. My thoughts:
Multiple targets... at least two. Start holstered at 5 yards from targets.
8 rounds per try, two trys, best of the two for the "record" purposes and witnessed as you proposed in OP.
Targets are something we can all find such as a B-27s.
Avoid timers if possible, since we all do not have them.
Prefer "shoot on the move" or "GOTX" in Gabe Suarez speak with move of at least 3-5 yards in distance from the 1st shot.

Fortunately, I shoot at the Orange Gun Club which has multiple pistol ranges and allows draw from holster, shoot on the move, etc.

[gringop]

To make sure that it's something to work for, the idea is that it be shot cold successfully 3 times (on separate days, to make sure that it's shot cold each time) and witnessed as such in order to qualify as a "Gunfighter" or "Gunslinger" (borrowed from The Dark Tower series by Steven King) - perhaps a certificate, embroidered patch or whatever to be displayed with pride.

It doesn't actually make one a gunfighter, of course - it just certifies that someone has met a pretty tough standard.
Thoughts?

My thoughts are that it's a good idea, but...

Be prepared to have some folks say it's too easy, some to say it's not tactical enough, some to say it's unsafe and lot's of folks ignore it because it's too hard.

If you can relate it directly to a well documented private citizen self defense incident, it will be easier for people to accept.

The term Gunfighter is a little over the top. Maybe you can call it the Well Rounded Confident CHL Standard.

There's the FAST, the old FAM, the FBI PQC 09 and (Lord help us) the Combat Master. Make yours different, relevant and interesting and it might take off.

Gringop

[TLE2]

I practice draw and fire drills when I can, but at my club I can really only practice that when I'm the only one on the range (I use a small range).

But... practice doesn't make perfect, it makes permanent.

I need training, and would be interested in your ideas.

[texastactical]

Let us know what you come up with. We will work it into one of the Texas Tactical IDPA Matches.

[Shoot_First]

Two tries? Nope - it's sudden death, shot totally cold - that's the point, just like in an actual fight. I might be forced to break it into 2 separate stages, but I hope not. It's meant to be rough - you get one attempt at the trial for that day - fail, and the soonest you can get a re-trial would be the next day at best. The aim is to force people to practice enough beforehand that the trial itself becomes quite doable cold - if they can keep it together on the day.

Andy... after further thought, I fully agree... cold is cold... don't see scenario where I could ask BG to wait while I shoot a practice round!

As to targets, not hardover on B-27, just go for something easily obtained.

As to round count, should get at least 2 hits COM on each target, preferably 2 hits COM plus 1 to head. Given your posssible three targets we are talking 6 - 9 good hits! With my 8 round 1911 EDC that probably involves a reload, not unrealistic, but a challenge on a timer vice the Glock crowd... might have to shoot the "Andy Challenge" with my G-19! Realistically, we are going to engage with the rounds in the carry magazine (cylinder) and perhaps a reload if not first taken out of action by the BG.

As point of reference my LEO son engaged BG in car attempting to run him down and shot 6 rounds (4 front, 1 side, 1 rear) from 1911 with 4 COM hits, so the "Andy Challenge" is doable. I look forward to it!!

[chasfm11]

Primarily, though, I want folks to focus on their close-range, high-speed shooting skills, not their ability to scoot 'n' shoot; a lot of folks just can't scoot, for various reasons, and I don't want to exclude them from trying out for it.

Yep. This is what I really want to do. I figure if I can handle multiple targets at high speed, that would give me a leg up on real situations that I might face.

I'd love to be a part of whatever you come up with.

Chas.

[gigag04]

Andy,

I'm in and would help anyway I can. I think to once a forum member has qualified, they can then qualify others.

[Jumping Frog]

I'm certainly interested in hearing more. The NRA has their Pistol Marksmanship Program that folks can do on their own, (the last stage requires an NRA instructor to witness) but it's pretty much standing and shooting X number of shots in an 8" circle from X feet away. It's not easy, but there is no "realism" involved.

The NRA Pistol Qualification is similar to NRA Action Pistol competition, and is very different from traditional NRA Conventional Bullseye Pistol Qualification.

It uses a reduced size Bianchi-style target AP-2 (used to be called D-2 -- it looks like this), where the 10 ring is about 2 inches in diameter. You shoot at 15 feet.

This event is conducted in four stages. The four stages must be completed in the same session to qualify as one completed course.
Stage 1: 5 rounds, strong side, 2 hands in 10 seconds.
Stage 2: 5 rounds, strong side, 1 hand in 10 seconds.
Stage 3: 5 rounds, weak side, 2 hands in 10 seconds.
Stage 4: 5 rounds, weak side, 1 hand in 10 seconds.

Rating Requirement: Three times over the course with a minimum score of 145, and three times over the course with a minimum score of 170.The number of courses does not have to be fired in succession or on the same day.

Back when I did it, you had to shoot 2 rounds each at 3 different targets in 10 seconds, and you had to complete 10 courses of fire instead of 6. I guess they have dumbed down the standards a little.