I want to buy my first AR

[wninja]

I'm already ahead of you on the classes. SRVA, Steve, on this site will likely be my instructor.

I'm leaning toward purchasing one of these... Includes a rear site of my choice.

http://www.class3weapons.com/Rock_River ... _s/122.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks wninja for the pointer on this site/store.

Glad to help, please let me know how your experience goes with Class 3, been thinking about dropping by there one of these days.

[jeeperbryan]

Why not just get an AK. Then you don't have to worry about brand name, spreadsheets, optics, quality ammo, reliability, manufacturer testing. They just work.

I'm in the same camp as maverick2076. There is alot of snob mentality in the AR world. Some of it may be justified, but to the average joe that shoots on the weekends....

[gigag04]

I agree with those who warned about factoring in the price of accessories, but I would also point out that if you go with a real basic entry level rifle, and then decide you want a better one later, you'd have been better off just buying a high quality one in the beginning. This argument goes for any gun. I personally think Colts, LMT's are great, and have heard good things about LWRC and Noveske, but have never shot either. I bought an entry level AR, and am now planning on buying an LMT MRP upper, because the upper receiver I have now is limiting what I would like to accomplish, and I wish I would have held off and saved up for a LMT in the first place. Also consider taking a class to learn how to really run your AR hard once you have it. Good Luck!

Be forewarned my MRP is heavy. I love it, and it runs and runs, but it's heavy.

[McKnife]

CDNN has COLT 6920's for $1099 and that includes a FREE Quad Rail. After FFL and Shipping, should be under $1200 for a top of the line rifle!




http://www.cdnninvestments.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Call them at: 1-800-588-9500

*My only affiliation with CDNN is being a frequent customer*

[MostlyHarmless]

Hi,
I'm new here. I've been lurking on this board for several months and have enjoyed the information you all have shared, thank you.

I've been considering an AR, myself and found the information on the following web page to be extremely illuminating...

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showth ... -AR-15-huh" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Hope that link helps you as much as it did me.

[rm9792]

I have built many many AR's and I can tell you that with current prices you would be better off buying one. The only way to make it cost effective is if you are going for a high end setup which doesnt sound likely for now or are very picky about the setup. Dollar wise it would make sense to me to buy a base model then add on as you see fit. You can build cheap with junk parts but it will then be a junk rifle.

They are really easy to assemble and you will learn every little part of your rifle but you will need to match the right parts and that will take someone with experience guiding you. Nothing like getting all the parts in the mail and finding you gas tube is the wrong length or you bought Colt pins for your non-colt lower. There is a lot of subjectivity as well when you get into stock style, sights, grip, foreend, rails or not, etc. might want to go to a gunshow and fondle to see what you like. There are other AR(ish) options as well such as the FN Scar, Sig 556, among others. Oh, and dont forget to buy an AR15 Armorer tool, they arent expensive ($25) but come in very handy.

[slowpoke]

http://www.independencefirearms.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has a good selection. My wife bought DPMS oracle for 599.00 with 2 /30 rnd mags.
they are out in the boonies abit , but worth checking out.

[74novaman]

Why not just get an AK. Then you don't have to worry about brand name, spreadsheets, optics, quality ammo, reliability, manufacturer testing. They just work.

I'm in the same camp as maverick2076. There is alot of snob mentality in the AR world. Some of it may be justified, but to the average joe that shoots on the weekends....

Glad I didn't have to be the one to say it.

[texjames]

CDNN has COLT 6920's for $1099 and that includes a FREE Quad Rail. After FFL and Shipping, should be under $1200 for a top of the line rifle!




http://www.cdnninvestments.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Call them at: 1-800-588-9500

*My only affiliation with CDNN is being a frequent customer*

Thats what i'd go for also. I had Colt AR15's back in the early 1980's sold them during the ban.I got back into AR15's almost two years ago
and i bought a Rock River Entry Tactical at a local Pawn/Gun Shop for $1031 plus tax.I would of went nuts for a deal like CDNN are having
those were $1400 when i bought the RR.Ya still get stuck with sales tax buying texas...check Larrys Pistol and pawn prices also.They had Colts and some others about the same price and less...no tax just a transfer fee to your fav gun shop (FFL).
Call them and ask...did not see a current sales flyer but the had a killer one over Christmas i saw.
http://www.pistolandpawn.com/
here's a Match Target Colt AR15 he shows...
http://www.pistolandpawn.com/store/colt ... 79639.html

[The Annoyed Man]

@ G192627, I want to expand on some of what maverick2076 wrote...

A couple of comments:

I've been doing the research like you for my first AR. I will still probably build. As long as you know what barrel and gas-tube length you want, everything else is pretty much modular and can be added on later. You are going to change stuff as time goes on, so don't let that dissuade you from building.

I am no gunsmith, but I have built myself a very nice AR15. It doesn't require that much in the way of mechanical skills. All the same, I can understand the hesitation to build one for a "first time" AR15. When I got my first one, the friend who convinced me to get one also urged me to build my own. That is what he had done for his first AR, but I was a little intimidated by the idea of it so I bought a Bushmaster varmint rifle instead. In hindsight, I consider that to be a mistake. If I were going hunting with one of my ARs, unless I was shooting prairie dogs I would much rather bring the relatively light and very accurate carbine that I built than to bring the very heavy 24" barreled varmint rifle that I bought. And it goes without saying that the carbine makes a better "room broom." I rarely ever shoot that Bushmaster anymore.

Personally, from all the reading and research I have done, I feel that an average user isn't going to see a whole lot of difference between the brands. I would posit that even a serious shooter isn't going to see enough difference to justify paying the extra amount between some of the mid-level manufacturers and the expensive brands. My 2 cents says there is a lot of brand snobbery in the AR world, and some people just feel better about having "the best brand" or a "Tier One manufacturer" rifle based of some forum-dweller's spreadsheet that has been floating around the Net for the last couple years. Bottom line: buy from who you feel comfortable makes a quality level that you can accept. For me, I'll avoid Olympic/Hesse/whatever else they go by, but I have no problems building myself a kit from Del-Ton, or buying a Stag, or a Spikes, or RRA. I feel that Colt or Noveske just don't offer me enough to justify the extra money. I'd rather put that money into optics, other accessories, or ammo.

Again, you're spot on. As far as assembled rifles go, my son has a 24" bull-barreled RRA varmint rifle, and I've seen him put 5 rounds into 1/4" with great repeatability with it. It is simply the most accurate rifle in our safes, and that includes a couple of extremely accurate heavy barreled .308 bolt rifles. The quality of that RRA rifle is superb, and it was purchased for $1,058.00, which is a steal compared to some other brand names that can't shoot any better than that. Here is a picture of both of the varmint rifles as purchased (minus scopes), with the RRA in the foreground. Both rifles have since been fitted with Magpul PRS stocks:


But even beyond that, my carbine is built out of a DPMS lower receiver and parts kit, and a nameless upper that was originally purchased from Galati Int'l barreled with an M4 profile military contract ER Shaw barrel. With the M4 barrel, accuracy was "adequate." I later bought a cheap brand (Model One) heavy profile 16" barrel and rebarreled the upper. Did the work myself. The barrel was about $140.00, and I now have an extremely accurate carbine. Over time, other parts have been added or swapped out that upgraded the overall function, and yes, the appearance, of the rifle. The point is that you can build yourself a very basic "mil-spec" carbine for not very much money, relatively speaking, and then you can go shoot it and look at some other guns to see what you would want to do with it to improve it.

Speaking of optics: Based on your description of what shooting you do, I would consider some of the unmagnified reflex optics for your AR, such as the Aimpoint, EoTech, or Trijicon Reflex. These sights are designed for the closer shooting work you describe, and are worth the money for ease of use and speed of acquistion.

I would add to that that both the Aimpoint and EOTech sight systems can be "upgraded" later with the addition of a magnifier lens on a flip to side mount. I started with just iron sights, then added a basic EOTech, and then later added the magnifier (also from EOTech). That's the beauty of the whole modular concept of an AR. Also, whatever you do, dont "cheap out" on the optics. If you're going to spend the money, spend it wisely and go for quality. Yes, it costs more, but you get more. I really like my EOTech equipment, but I don't have any particular brand fanaticism. I would probably rather have an ACOG, but it just isn't in the budget, whereas the modular approach of the EOTech which I was able to buy in increments put high quality optics in my hands at a price I could afford. But that was me. All I'm saying is, resist the temptation to buy $99 optics.

One last comment: Many AR guys harp on Mil-spec, and brag about how much closer their rifle is to "mil-spec" than other rifles. Before you fall into that trap, understand what mil-spec is. Mil-spec is a set of design and testing qualifications that contractors have to meet to get a product purchased my the military. While mil-spec is designed to ensure quality, it is often written by bureaucrats and tailored to very specific concerns. While a lot of mil-spec requirements start of as well meaning design specs, they can quickly become overbearing and esoteric. Don't take mil-spec as being a basic minimum requirement for reliable function. Mil-spec is how we end up with $300 hammers and $1500 wristwatches with National Stock Numbers for me to order in my supply catalog.

Those are very good points, particularly the bit about "mil-spec." Remember that during the Vietnam war, when M16s were issued to soldiers in the field without cleaning kits, with ammo that had higher velocity powders that also more heavily fouled the weapon leading to chronic weapon failures in the middle of combat, THAT was mil-spec.

[Scott in Houston]

That Colt deal seems even better than the RRA deal... and as you said, the RRA deal is here in Texas so I'd pay even more for sales tax, while for that Colt, it would be the FFL fee only.

Plus, the Colt is likely a slightly better quality rifle, right? I have nothing to base that on other than word of mouth and reputation.

[Scott in Houston]

Thanks Annoyed Man for all that information!!
I definitely have learned from your experience. Thanks again.

I'm now leaning towards the Colt. :) I still don't think I want to build yet, but I know I won't go the heavy, varmint rifle route either.

[bigred90gt]

Regarding Maverick's thoughts on "some spreadsheet" and that most people won't see a difference between a high end rifle, and a mid range one, why spend 5-600 on a quality optic? I'm sure a BSA red dot will work fine for these same users?

To add a different perspective, the spreadsheet details the level of testing a maker's rifles are put through before leaving the factory, among other things, like who has a better, more rugged bolt carrier group. To some, this is mere trivial information...

To others it helps decide whether weapon platform is likely to hold up under even the most extreme conditions. My primary rifle doesn't see conditions too extreme like a desert, but it is used frequently for work, gets banged around, wet, and dirty a lot, and I need it to work.

As of right now, I use my rifle for nothing but target plinking. I can tell you from first hand experience, that BSA Red dot isnt worth the package it comes in for a real rifle. It may be great on a paintball/airsoft/pellet gun, but anything above .22lr in caliber, and I would never again consider it. In fact, it now just sits on top of my rifle. I dont use it anymore.

[The Annoyed Man]

That Colt deal seems even better than the RRA deal... and as you said, the RRA deal is here in Texas so I'd pay even more for sales tax, while for that Colt, it would be the FFL fee only.

Plus, the Colt is likely a slightly better quality rifle, right? I have nothing to base that on other than word of mouth and reputation.

Buy the Colt because you like the name, not because of the quality. I'll stand an RRA rifle up against it's equivalent in a Colt every single time. I really believe that RRA's quality is very, very hard to beat. I certainly don't think Colt's quality is any better. There's nothing wrong with Colt, but for the small aggregate difference between sales tax for a Texas supplier on one hand, and the combined FFL fee and freight on the other hand, I would rather support the Texas supplier. But that's just me.