New York Times Editorial 8-14-2006
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New York Times Editorial 8-14-2006
Editorial
Shoot First — No Questions Asked
If ever a law was designed as a get-out-of-jail-free card for the trigger-happy gun owner, it’s one that comes to us via the gun lobby and the State of Florida. The law, passed in the last year in 15 states and being considered in eight others, allows the extraordinary use of deadly force when a person simply doesn’t want to back away from a confrontation.
There are legitimate kill-or-be-killed situations, but those are defensible in court already. There seems little reason to legally enshrine the right to maim or kill in response to a perceived threat. These laws do just that, and already a creepy picture of “Death Wish�-style justice is emerging.
In one case, a retired police officer shot twice and seriously wounded an apparently unarmed neighbor who had knocked on his door in a dispute over the number of garbage bags put out for collection. The shooter will remain free as long as his self-defense argument holds, and it well may.
The contorted logic of these laws reverses the notions that favored flight over fight and held deadly force to be a last resort. The Florida law holds that a crime victim may “stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary.� To defend homes and vehicles, an owner can wield lethal force with a freedom not granted to the police.
Redefining lethal force is bad enough, but it also comes with near-automatic immunity from prosecution and civil lawsuits. Florida’s law is a sick cousin of the work of the gun lobby on Capitol Hill, where it has successfully protected the interstate traffickers of guns used in crimes. And it is the evil twin of laws passed in 38 states that allow concealed weapons. After all, what good is packing heat if it just stays in the holster?
I'm speechless. Thank God I live in Texas!
Shoot First — No Questions Asked
If ever a law was designed as a get-out-of-jail-free card for the trigger-happy gun owner, it’s one that comes to us via the gun lobby and the State of Florida. The law, passed in the last year in 15 states and being considered in eight others, allows the extraordinary use of deadly force when a person simply doesn’t want to back away from a confrontation.
There are legitimate kill-or-be-killed situations, but those are defensible in court already. There seems little reason to legally enshrine the right to maim or kill in response to a perceived threat. These laws do just that, and already a creepy picture of “Death Wish�-style justice is emerging.
In one case, a retired police officer shot twice and seriously wounded an apparently unarmed neighbor who had knocked on his door in a dispute over the number of garbage bags put out for collection. The shooter will remain free as long as his self-defense argument holds, and it well may.
The contorted logic of these laws reverses the notions that favored flight over fight and held deadly force to be a last resort. The Florida law holds that a crime victim may “stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary.� To defend homes and vehicles, an owner can wield lethal force with a freedom not granted to the police.
Redefining lethal force is bad enough, but it also comes with near-automatic immunity from prosecution and civil lawsuits. Florida’s law is a sick cousin of the work of the gun lobby on Capitol Hill, where it has successfully protected the interstate traffickers of guns used in crimes. And it is the evil twin of laws passed in 38 states that allow concealed weapons. After all, what good is packing heat if it just stays in the holster?
I'm speechless. Thank God I live in Texas!
"Happiness is a warm gun" - The Beatles - 1969
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I read articles like that nearly every day.
I wish I could afford a new gun every time I read one. But then I'd have to buy a larger home for a much larger safe (or three).
Let the idiots vent. Until they learn to band together, as members of NRA (and other gun rights organizations) have, they'll continue to be clueless and wonder how a few wealthy lobbyists can hold so much political power.
It's very hard to refrain from telling these people that the NRA represents 4-million+ votes. Let them figure it out on their own.
I wish I could afford a new gun every time I read one. But then I'd have to buy a larger home for a much larger safe (or three).
Let the idiots vent. Until they learn to band together, as members of NRA (and other gun rights organizations) have, they'll continue to be clueless and wonder how a few wealthy lobbyists can hold so much political power.
It's very hard to refrain from telling these people that the NRA represents 4-million+ votes. Let them figure it out on their own.
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I grew up in NY, to this day have still spent more timeliving in NY than I have Texas - but that makes me want to crawl out of my skin - almost ashamed to claim NY.
However, you have to keep in mind that upstate NY(a much larger area of land than south NY) is mostly gun totin redneck types just like down here. Not all of NY is evil in this sense.
However, you have to keep in mind that upstate NY(a much larger area of land than south NY) is mostly gun totin redneck types just like down here. Not all of NY is evil in this sense.
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I've had a few friends from upstate NY. They could hold their own with a southern boy all day long. I made 'em prove it, and they did. On the mat and at the range.cyphur wrote:I grew up in NY, to this day have still spent more timeliving in NY than I have Texas - but that makes me want to crawl out of my skin - almost ashamed to claim NY.
However, you have to keep in mind that upstate NY(a much larger area of land than south NY) is mostly gun totin redneck types just like down here. Not all of NY is evil in this sense.
It's a shame that everyone seems to equate all of the upper colonial states with NYC and Boston. Even Massachusetts has some excellent country folks.
New Hampshire? Fohgettaboutit! Live Free or Die! If those people had long enough legs, they'd have been in Texas a long time ago.
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My legs are not that long so it just took me a few more steps to get from NH to Tx. Massachsetts and NH are like 2 different countries.cjlandry wrote:I've had a few friends from upstate NY. They could hold their own with a southern boy all day long. I made 'em prove it, and they did. On the mat and at the range.cyphur wrote:I grew up in NY, to this day have still spent more timeliving in NY than I have Texas - but that makes me want to crawl out of my skin - almost ashamed to claim NY.
However, you have to keep in mind that upstate NY(a much larger area of land than south NY) is mostly gun totin redneck types just like down here. Not all of NY is evil in this sense.
It's a shame that everyone seems to equate all of the upper colonial states with NYC and Boston. Even Massachusetts has some excellent country folks.
New Hampshire? Fohgettaboutit! Live Free or Die! If those people had long enough legs, they'd have been in Texas a long time ago.
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Sounds like the author is vying for an invite to Bloomberg's CC. On second thought, with words like that they probably already belong, but are REALLY wanting to just tag along with him out on the golf course, fetch his club or hold his drink or something.
You know though, in all seriousness, I'm really amazed at all these places that have disgraceful crime stats that have yet to open their eyes and see the true facts before them in other states and cities that have seen a dramatic (or at least somewhat substantial) drop in violent crime when less restrictive gun laws have been adopted. If I were a resident in one of those areas like NYC, Boston, D.C. or the entire state of California, I would be downright embarrassed to call it home!
You know though, in all seriousness, I'm really amazed at all these places that have disgraceful crime stats that have yet to open their eyes and see the true facts before them in other states and cities that have seen a dramatic (or at least somewhat substantial) drop in violent crime when less restrictive gun laws have been adopted. If I were a resident in one of those areas like NYC, Boston, D.C. or the entire state of California, I would be downright embarrassed to call it home!
NRA, TSRA, TXGR, SAF, GOA & FPC
"I'm not terrified of guns, I'm terrified of gun-free zones!"
"I'm not terrified of guns, I'm terrified of gun-free zones!"
I really think the New Yorkers should stop worrying about Florida and worry about this.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/15/nyreg ... nted=print
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/15/nyreg ... nted=print
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Remember that NY is the state where the judge ruled that the woman had to leave the house rather than fighting back, because she had an exit available to her.
My Yankee Carpetbagger parents kidnapped me from my native San Antonio when I was too youg to defend myself, and made me grow up in upstate NY. I got back to Texas as soon as I could.
My Yankee Carpetbagger parents kidnapped me from my native San Antonio when I was too youg to defend myself, and made me grow up in upstate NY. I got back to Texas as soon as I could.
Real gun control, carrying 24/7/365
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That is just amazing.
Well, it's obvious that the New York Times doesn't understand the true intent of the law. (us being evil gun owners, does it even matter? )
If the examples that the NY Times gives are fully accurate, it's a shame. The law was never meant to allow people to shoot someone for any damn reason. I'm guessing that the Times editorial is omiting facts.
I'd love someone in law enforcement (Txinvestigator? Learn me some more) explain how this law gives citizens rights not given to police? Is it the mistaken conclusion from mistaken facts, or is there really something to that? I'm assuming the Times is saying that the police can't randomly shoot people when they get threatened, but "citizens can with this new law."
If a police officer on duty, and a citizen are in a similar situation (Man approaching with a drawn weapon) would the citizen in a "stand your ground" state, and a police officer have the same rights?
I just don't get it.
Well, it's obvious that the New York Times doesn't understand the true intent of the law. (us being evil gun owners, does it even matter? )
If the examples that the NY Times gives are fully accurate, it's a shame. The law was never meant to allow people to shoot someone for any damn reason. I'm guessing that the Times editorial is omiting facts.
I'd love someone in law enforcement (Txinvestigator? Learn me some more) explain how this law gives citizens rights not given to police? Is it the mistaken conclusion from mistaken facts, or is there really something to that? I'm assuming the Times is saying that the police can't randomly shoot people when they get threatened, but "citizens can with this new law."
If a police officer on duty, and a citizen are in a similar situation (Man approaching with a drawn weapon) would the citizen in a "stand your ground" state, and a police officer have the same rights?
I just don't get it.
.השואה... לעולם לא עוד
Holocaust... Never Again.
Some people create their own storms and get upset when it rains.
--anonymous
Holocaust... Never Again.
Some people create their own storms and get upset when it rains.
--anonymous
Wow, I've missed a few things this week. I guess I've been busy roasting kittens and making puppy caserole while cleaning my thousands of evil guns and picking my teeth with the bones of innocent little tweety birds! All this before lunch! While after lunch I wander around the street looking for my next shooting victim!
I'm trying to play catch up and read what I missed, and I came across this. I can't believe how naive some people can be. Statements like that really make me hurt for the future of our country.
By the way, the first paragraph was sarcasm if they're are any conspiracy loons tracking our forum. The sky IS falling txi! Some people are crazy. At least we have each other to keep the place sane!
I'm trying to play catch up and read what I missed, and I came across this. I can't believe how naive some people can be. Statements like that really make me hurt for the future of our country.
By the way, the first paragraph was sarcasm if they're are any conspiracy loons tracking our forum. The sky IS falling txi! Some people are crazy. At least we have each other to keep the place sane!